What's new

Lost: Season 5 (1 Viewer)

TravisR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
42,429
Location
The basement of the FBI building
I thought the opposite. My only real complaint with this season is that I wish it was a little longer (an episode or two) because they seemed to bring everything together very quickly at the end (especially the story with Locke, Ben, Sun, etc.) just like last year when the strike shortened their season. Granted, if my only problem is "I wish it was longer", it was a pretty good season.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif
 

Josh Dial

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2000
Messages
4,504
Real Name
Josh Dial

Agree with whom?

I personally think it was one of the better season finales of any show: it answered a few questions, raised a lot of fun ones to debate over the coming months, and left on a cliffhanger--but not one so gut-wrenching as to make you hate the show (but in a loving way) for leaving you like that.
 

Charlie Campisi

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
1,645
I still don't understand why it's so easy to conclude Jacob's rival is in Locke's body and Alex's body to orchestrate the conflict. Wasn't Locke surprised when Ben told him he saw Alex under the temple? Didn't Locke have to ask Richard what the foot was and be told it was where Jacob lived? Weren't Jacob and the rival sitting in the shadow of the statue in the opening scene? I'm just not convinced this isn't a "new Locke" or a reincarnation.
 

Joe_H

Screenwriter
Joined
Jun 17, 2001
Messages
1,787

How about the fact that at the beginning he said to Jacob how he'd find a loophole, and then right before Jacob died he asked 'Locke' "I guess you found a loophole, huh?" or something like that.
 

Joseph DeMartino

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
8,311
Location
Florida
Real Name
Joseph DeMartino
I think Locke is dead and gone, but Juliet's fate may still be up in the air. Elizabeth Mitchell has been cast in the lead role of a new version of the alien invasion series V. But this has only been green-lit for a pilot, which hasn't even been shot yet. The show is not on ABC's fall schedule (or the schedule for next spring, for that matter.) In Hollywood there is many a slip between the cup and the lip. V obviously has first call on Mitchell's services, but if the project collapses, she'll be available for the final season of Lost and I suspect the producers would be delighted to have her.

I think "Esau" is too obvious a name for the Anti-Jacob.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif



I don't think the phrase has anything to do with Locke, quite apart from the fact that he wasn't lying in the statue's shadow. (It was nightime, and the statue cast no shadow on Locke because the only light source was the torches of the people on the same side of the statue as Locke.) I'm quite certain the phrase refers to Jacob or the chamber beneath the statue where he lived.

Jabob and his friend may have worn symbolic black and white at the start of the episode, but Jacob wears no white at all in any of his other appearances until the very end. Mostly he dresses in very dark colors, greys and maybe blacks. For what it's worth.

The island seems to have been the home to an ancient civilization, hence the statue and the heiroglyphics, or to have attracted people from a succession of civilizations. But the four-toed statue suggests that it is not a cvilization that we know about directly. Jacob's tapestry features Egyptian-style illustrations, some of which are clearly not heiroglyphs. But it also includes Greek letters. Richard Alpert was known as Ricardus (not "Ricardo") at some point, and speaks (classical) Latin. But "Ricardus" is not a Latin or Roman name. It is the Latin form of what was originally a Germanic name. When he says, "It is Richard, actually", he's not kidding. (Richard means "powerful leader." His surname, Alpert, is also Germanic in origin, a variation of Albrecht and Albert, composed of the elements adal ‘noble’ + berht ‘bright') I would say that Richard was a Germanic tribesman who was Romanized to one degree or another, perhaps served in the legions, and found his way to the island. I wonder if he was stationed in what is now Tunisia? It may be that the transport system works in both directions, or at least that it used to. Either that or the island does not always exsit in the Pacific, but can move to other oceans. Maybe it was once in the Mediterranean (or the Atlantic if it is, indeed, Atlantis. That would also explain how the Black Rock - a slave ship - ended up there. The only major slave trade in the time of that ship was in the Atlantic and the Carribean.)

But Jacob and his friend seem considerably older. I don't how they got there or what the origin of the place is, but based on their conversation on the beach, I'd hazard a guess as to what the history of the island has been for the last 1500 or so years:

Jacob and Friend are on the island. Exiles from Egypt? Survivors of Mu? Lemuria? Atlantis? There may or may not be "others" with them, some kind of indigenous (but mortal) population. The island is a place of power, and it is hidden. From time to time Jacob brings a group of outsiders to the island, perhaps trying to restart an advanced civilization. What follows is a replay of The Lord of the Flies, just as "Smokey" describes it: violence, corruption, disaster. (It is an open question how much Smokey himself contributes to this "inevitable" sequence of events.) Probably a few survivors and any children are incorporated into the native population. And at some point, Jacob tries again. He thinks that one of these days a group will come to the island who can succeed, who will be heirs to what was once there. Smokey disagrees.

I think the Dharma initiative may have been one of Jacobs attempts. I am almost certain that the Oceanic Six are, and that Jack, in particular, is meant to be the ultimate "leader" of the island. I think he and Desmond are meant to find a way to break the previous cycle of failure on the island.

Was that the Black Rock they were watching as it approached the island?

I'm not sure if the bomb ever went off. I think the white flash we saw was another time flash - perhaps triggered by the magnetic anomaly. Or maybe the bomb did blow and that combined with the anomaly causes a time flash that sends Jack and company back to 2007.

BTW, I also thought there was a bomb, probably a nuclear one, inside the box on the Ajira survivors were carrying. I thought they were going to detonate it in the vicinity of the old Swan hatch, and that the simultaneous explosions in 1977 and 2007 were what was going to create the time-rift that brings the other survivors forward.

Further random thoughts as I watch the thing again...
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif


Joe
 

Josh Dial

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2000
Messages
4,504
Real Name
Josh Dial
As I've done in the past few threads for LOST, I would suggest that if people want a good laugh, to check out the threads for the first few seasons (or all of them). It's pretty fun to see some of the theories (some of which turned out to be correct, others were dead-wrong). I also like seeing who the early detractors were, and if they have since "come around." There are a few I can think of that started out essentially hating the show, but are now pretty clearly big fans
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif


Here's the link to the first season thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ad-merged.html

cheers!
 

Joseph DeMartino

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
8,311
Location
Florida
Real Name
Joseph DeMartino
Was I the only one who kept waiting for Jacob to say, "You can strike me down, but I will become more powerful than you can ever imagine."
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif


P.S.

Parallell universes had been done to death in SF long before Star Trek was even a gleam in Gene's eye, but that doesn't make them, or time travel, any less valid for use in a new story. If everything that had been "done before" were off-limits Trek itself would never have existed. Indeed, all the "original" stories would have been used up long before the four-toed statue was built, probably while our ancestors were still living in caves.

Regards,

Joe
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes

A fair point about Locke and the shadows, or lack thereof. However, I'm personally convinced Jacob is not the savior. It is Jacob himself that needs to be saved, along with all of his people, namely the Others and maybe the new crop of survivors.

Jacob previously asked for Locke's help in the cabin, seemingly powerless. And now, with his death, or near death, at Ben's hand, is not in any position to serve as a savior. Perhaps the true savior isn't Locke. Maybe it's Jack, who now seems convinced he has a destiny to fulfill—and it apparently wasn't detonating the bomb.

I just refuse to believe that the savior/hero is a character we haven't been invested in for the last several seasons. Of course, I could be entirely wrong :)
 

Joseph DeMartino

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
8,311
Location
Florida
Real Name
Joseph DeMartino

The phrase isn't "the one who will save us". It is "the one (or the thing) that saves us" - either present tense or describing an on-going action. It is like calling a cop "the one who protects us." Jacob, after all, has always been the one who protected both the island and it residents. (And the people who were asking the question were doing so before Locke returned or Jacob was stabbed - the phrase is clearly an old one.)

And, finally, it is in freaking Latin ;), which would further indicate that it is a well-worn maxim that has been used for centuries, not something meant to apply to the exact present moment or the future. The question and the response suggest a ritual or a recognition sign. I don't this has anything specifically to do with current events, although it certainly could be applicable to future events or present ones, at least symbolically. But I never thought it was intended as some kind of prophecy. Rather it was asked to find out if the person giving the answer was truly a member of the island community.

Regards,

Joe
 

Josh Dial

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2000
Messages
4,504
Real Name
Josh Dial

To be fair, *someone* asked for help, but it definately isn't clear if it was Jacob, or his enemy, or someone else entirely. Ben hadn't even seen Jacob, nor had Locke, so it's all just guess-work, really. Remember that later, when Christian said he "spoke for Jacob," many people thought that Christian *was* Jacob (I was not one of them). Now, the real question is why did Jacob need Christian to speak for him, when he already has Richard? The answer, in my opinion, is that Christian wasn't speaking for Jacob at all, but rather attempting (and succeeding) to trick Locke.
 

Joe_H

Screenwriter
Joined
Jun 17, 2001
Messages
1,787

Damn you, I decided to look at season 1's posts after reading this.... and now I'm getting the urge to start from the beginning again. :D
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes

True. It may not have been Jacob in the cabin, but why would Christian trick Locke? To what end?

That only makes sense if the Oceanic 6 were not destined to return to the Island. Yet Jacob himself explicitly told Hurley they needed to return to the island. He was heavily invested in the fates of the other survivors as well.

If we are to believe that really was Jacob in Hurley's cab, nothing that Christian said or did seems at cross-purposes.

I remain convinced that in leaving the Island and dying that John Locke was doing Jacob's bidding.
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes

Perhaps I've focused too much on Locke's ruminations about backgammon back in season 1, but I took the question to be both a test of recognition and a prophecy. The island is waiting for a savior, someone to move beyond what Jacob referred to as 'progress' and to an ultimate conclusion.
 

Josh Dial

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2000
Messages
4,504
Real Name
Josh Dial

I think you may be confused as to the order of events, with regards to the visits to the cabin, the moving of the island, and the return of the O6.

The first time we see the cabin is in season 3, in the ep "The Man Behind the Curtain." Locke and Ben head off to see Jacob, and arrive at the cabin. Note at this point, the ash ring appears to be intact. As was revealed in the finale, Ben only pretended to see Jacob, and the entire thing was a show he put on for Locke. However, Locke *did* see something: some spectral entity pleading for help. Ben says this was Jacob, though we now know he couldn't be sure at all. Ben shoots Locke later on in the episode.

The next time we see the cabin is in in the season 4 opener, "The Beginning of the End." Hurley accidently finds the cabin, and looks inside to find Christian, obscured by the shadows. Suddenly there is a flash of movement, and an eye appears. Hurley runs away, only to find the cabin again. Eventually he shakes the experience, and encounters Locke.

The cabin's next appearance is "Cabin Fever," also in season 4 (though the episode before the finale, so a full season later, almost). It is here that Locke enters the cabin alone, and is met by Christian, who claims to speak for Jacob, telling Locke to move the island. Also, Locke has dreams in which Horace is seen building the cabin. Of note is that Horace is having nosebleeds in the dream, not unlike the ones experienced by Charlotte and crew, during the time skipping.

Then, of course, is the season 5 finale.

So, when Locke meets Christian at the cabin, the island has yet to be moved (in fact this is where we learn of the notion to begin with), so there is no O6 at all. So it only makes sense that later on, Jacob would want Hurley and the rest to return, because they were never meant to leave. Christian tricked Locke into moving the island (although Ben did it) to start his plan towards the loophole. Jacob attempted to right that action, by assisting in the plan to return the O6.

Remember that Locke tells Jack that they (meaning Jack and those who have decided to leave) aren't meant to leave, in the finale "There's No Place Like Home." Locke has been told that moving the island is the only way to save it, but this is a lie (by Christian). In reality, moving the island only serves to prevent (though ultimately unsuccessfully) the O6 from returning, which seems to be Christian's plan.

Now, if you add in the idea that Christian's body/spirit/whatever could be being controlled by Jacob's enemy, then it's all a devious plot to seperate some of the losties from the island. If those losties are some of Jacob's key "pieces" in their game (with two sides, one light, the other dark), then he's now at a significant disadvantage.
 

Ray H

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Messages
3,570
Location
NJ
Real Name
Ray
My complaint isn't that the show hasn't set it up thematically. It's rather that up until last night, not only did we not know who/what Jacob was or what side he was on, we had no clue there was some other villain and that their relationship would be the crux of the show - influencing all of the events of the last five seasons. But what was the point in waiting so long? Why couldn't the season have started with the opening scene from the finale? Just so no one would see the twist coming?
 

Mikah Cerucco

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 27, 1998
Messages
2,457
Luckily, it didn't turn out that way. It may not have pleased everyone, but it definitely pleased some viewers, including me.

I loved everything about seeing Jacob and his adversary, and I have no problem if Jack, et al are pawns, because at the end of the day, that's what they've been anyway -- we simply didn't know who was calling the shots. In general, I enjoy peeling back the layers of an story like an onion. "You will learn things that makes you reevaluate what you think you already know." Surely it can't be a surprise to folks at this point that Lost fishes those waters.
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes

I definitely need to revisit the entire series, which I plan to do once the blu-ray discs are released. And you definitely reminded me of some details I had forgotten, but wasn't Christian also involved in getting John Locke off the island, to get the Oceanic 6 back?
 

TonyD

Who do we think I am?
Ambassador
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
24,249
Location
Gulf Coast
Real Name
Tony D.
Tim obviously that wasn't Christian in the cabin.

Josh, that is brilliant and I say that because I agree with everything you wrote.

This is nearly exactly what my wife and i have been saying.
 

Mikah Cerucco

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 27, 1998
Messages
2,457
If we have a being/entity that can take the form of other people/things, we can't really say with any certainty if "Christian" did that. But yes, someone in the form of Christian helped Locke get off the island and said, "Say hello to my son."
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,815
Messages
5,123,799
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top