Lost: Season 5 (1 Viewer)

[MattPeriolat]

I'm not so sure about that. If Jacob hadn't stopped Sayid and asked for directions, does it not stand to reason Sayid would have been killed with Nadya?

Actually, I've been thinking a lot about Jacob and his role in all this and I do wonder if the Aljira crew were agents of his and if perhaps Libby might not have been to. Think about it: Libby was in the psych hospital with Hurley, possibly keeping an eye on him, then possibly saved him from the smoke monster's influence in the season 2 episode Dave. Also remember Libby gave Desmond the boat that sent him on his way to the island too.

There are no coincidences in this show, I can assure you of that.

 

[Joseph Young]

Some important points:

People have already begun referring to Jacob's rival as Esau. I can't say I like this - the Jacob/Esau rivalry is well known in Genesis but I don't quite see how the story fits in directly with anything in the Lost universe. If these two men are supposed to represent this biblical conflict, then I feel that the whole business is more of a homage than a direct connection. If this is truly a case of 'two banished ancient figures characters resolving their biblical feud, it feels shoehorned in a bit late.

Josh, nice call on mentioning Sobek. The statue also looks awfully similar to the Egyptian Goddess Tawaret. This does fit in with the dangers of conceiving on the island. Maybe the statue's destruction created conditions wherein women who conceived on the island were no longer protected. 'Nice catch' on noticing the red herring! (sorry couldn't help it)

The producers said that most astute viewers, from viewing the finale, will be able to map out Season 6. It's no secret that they're huge Stephen King fans. The similarities between where LOST goes in its final season and "The Stand" are not accidental. Good versus evil. Locke's chess game with Walt in Season 1, among other thing, foreshadows this. Light and dark. Perhaps, Esau/Evil Locke versus Jacob's followers? Sides will be chosen. Battle lines will be drawn. Explosions and guns and spears. Where does Widmore fit in? Where does Desmond fit in?

I agree with Joe that Locke is a goner. He's dead. Finite. He died when Ben strangled him. Getting him on the plane was a ruse to set Esau's 'loophole' plan in motion.

Now that Jacob's dead and the bomb has gone off, what happens next? The producers have told us that the time travel is done with. No more. So, that means that the 1977 Losties are heading for the present to join up with everyone else. I see a big 'good versus evil' battle being played out. Juliet is also gone. She got her great heroine moment in the finale.

One (most important) point to make. Anyone who's seen BSG is familiar with the premise 'all of this has happened before, and will happen again.' I'm seeing echoes of this now in Lost. Jacob and "Esau" speak on the beach about things always ending up the same. "The rest is progress," replies Jacob, implying that with each iteration (each turn of the wheel?), progress is made to set things right. I get the sense that we're seeing events play out the way they've been playing out for a long long time, with the Losties playing archetypal roles played out for millennia. This is only a theory, but it helps to broaden the background behind the events of the first five seasons. The emphasis on destiny gives the final season more resonance.

I'm not saying I'm necessarily happy with where some of my theories will take the show (in fact I hope I'm wrong about some of it), but it seems pretty clear that at very least, they're looking for "The Stand" set on a tropical island instead of a post apocalyptic Vegas.

 

[Josh Dial]

For those saying the good versus evil battle has been tacked on in the 5th season, I would hasten to point out (as I did back in season 3):

 

[Joseph Young]

Good call, Josh!

I mentioned chess but now that I think of it, Backgammon must have been the game Locke played with Walt. In any case, it's not surprising to see our LOST overlords plumbing the depths of archetypal significance for the conflicts on the show.

 

[Joe_H]

I don't know if this actually means anything or not at all, but on Lostpedia, the casting call for other guy says the name they gave was:
Samuel

Now, I'm fully aware it could've been a false name to throw people off but just thought I'd mention that.

Jacob's enemy - Lostpedia

 

[Josh Dial]

I think the name is false, and the description is obviously not what the character is--it's clearly designed to get a certain type of actor to audition for the role. The role has certain traits (cunning, etc) desired by Cuse/Lindelof for Jacob's Enemy, but clearly they couldn't put out a casting call that would spoil the plot. They have done similar things in the past, for casting other characters.

 

[Arild]

Wow. That was truly the biggest "WTF" episode of Lost, ever - and that's saying something.

I'm guessing the guy who talked to Jacob in the opening scene of the episode is the smoke monster - who, for some reason, wants to kill Jacob and take his place but can't for whatever reason. He manipulated events and eventually took the form of the now-dead John Locke, then in the form of Alex told Ben to follow "Locke"s every word (remember how Locke was always conveniently absent when Smokey appeared this season?) - thus placing himself/itself into the position where he could order Ben to kill Jacob.

But who are these two people (or whatever they are - ancient Gods in human form perhaps?) and what are their conflict? Who is good and who is bad? And did the bomb erase this timeline, making it a moot point (not likely)?


...and was that the Black Rock arriving on the island? Did Sayid die or not? WTF is going to be the result of the bomb going off? When did/will Richard watch the O6 die? What is his connection to the Shadow of the Statue people, and were they there to protect Jacob, or maybe to assist his enemy?

Damn it, I may not get a single good nights sleep until late January 2010.

 

[Sean Laughter]

I don't think anyone is saying the good versus evil battle has been tacked on. It's been pretty heavily involved in the development of the show and has escalated as the show has gone on - beachies vs. others, whidmore vs. ben, and now you get to the final "onion skin" which is these two.

I think some just take issue with the actual "alpha conflict" of everything being introduced in a somewhat hasty manner and then being given only 15/16 episodes worth of development before the show ends. It risks ultimately not pleasing anyone - ie. you spend too much time on Jacob & Friend and you get complaints of lack of focusing on original cast, you do the opposite and you get complaints about not being talked about concerning Jacob & Friend and their nature, or having their nature revealed and it not being "earned" or have the gravitas it really should have because we've barely known them at all.

 

[mike caronia]

I thought of it as Mortimer and Randolph with their $1 bet in Trading Places.
Jacob and the other guy have a bet to see who can make good people killers, and ruthless people desperate and pathetic.
ha

Loved the episode. Need to re-watch this weekend.

 

[NeilO]

The way I saw it was that Jacob stopped Sayid. Nadia paused in the middle of the crosswalk to stop and tell Sayid that she found her glasses. If Sayid has not been stopped, the two of them may have cleared the crosswalk before that car went through. It could have been that they both would have been hit and Jacob did save Sayid, but that's the way it looked to me.

 

[mattCR]

I just am looking for what Ricardo/Richard said in Latin(?) to the mercenary people who know WTF is going on...

 

[Josh Dial]

My only issue with the episode has to do with the geography of the statue. If I recall, Locke (I'm calling him that, no matter who he was), Ben, Richard, and the rest stopped for a bit at the original lostie camp (we saw the crib and the hatch as a reminder). I don't remember the time of day (anyone know?), but it seemed only a few hours of walking along the beach before they arrived at the statue.

Now, you'll recall back in the episode "LaFleur," Sawyer and friends, who were at the Orchid site/well, could see the back of the completed statue, at some unknown point in the past. It was large enough to be close-ish, but still far enough for the orchid to be in well into the jungle.


These three things, the original beach camp, the orchid, and the well, seem to be too close. Is the seemingly-short time it took the people to walk from the old camp to the statue an error?

Is there even a slight possibility of *two* statues?

 

[MarkMel]

I don't think that was a herring, perhaps a red snapper. Good thought though.

http://misshospitalityfishing.com/As...ed_Snapper.jpg

 

[MattPeriolat]

Fair enough. Potato, potato. Given it seemed all of Jacob's other encounters with our Lost-ies were alturistic (or so it seems), just doesn't make sense for Jacob to be responsible for Nadya dying, at least to me.

 

[Hugh Jackes]

Here’s something that I’ve been pondering (and I may be writing it just to try to get it straight in my own head):

If this comes down to good versus evil, who is good? Is there good? Jacob has been discussed here as the exemplar of the good, but he used people as pawns. He allowed Nadya to die (but that may not have been within his power to change)

At one time or another, the Dahrma people (Juliette, I think, certainly Goodwin), “the others” (aka, “the hostiles”) (none other than Ben), and the Shadow of the statue people (in just the last episode) claimed that they were the good guys.

Maybe Whidmore and his people are the good? Oh wait, there’s the murderous Abbadon (sp?).

From the viewers’ POV, Jake, Kate, and the other flight 815 survivors (plus the people who have joined thr group later) are the good guys, yet we know that some of them have done horrible things, all of them have behaved in a very self-centered manner at times.
Perhaps there are just varying levels of evil.

 

[Joe_H]

Well, I think we're being lead to believe that those with Jacob are supposed to be good, and those against him aren't. That's why the others on Ajira were the good guys, and the Others were the good guys.

I'm wondering if Widmore (and Hawking for that matter) has met Jacob (or the other guy) considering he/they used to be one of the leaders as well.

 

[Joseph Young]

These are precisely the questions I had coming out of the finale.

 

[TravisR]

 

[Hugh Jackes]

And yet, there is much blood on their hands. Not to argue with you (much). Just trying to figure it out.

 

[Cary P]

Well, I agree that this was the most unsatisfying finale since Season 1.

While I didn't expect it to reach the heights of the season 3 finale, and enjoyed it for the most part - there was a general feeling of being rubbed the wrong way in how much it changes what we've seen before.

In general, I think the events of this season could have been condensed into about half as many episodes - too much time spent in Dharmaville and time-jumping 30 years back and forth, IMO. Hopefully, it will all be resolved in a satisfactory way in the limited time we have next year.

This sounds pathetic, but is anyone now worried that they might not make it to 2010 to see what happens?