Losing my mind over cable decision to match system (1 Viewer)

[Chu Gai]

Not at all Alan. It basically comes down to the manner in which you're listening and part of it comes down to the fact that it's a sighted comparison. If you have a couple of friends you can conduct a reasonable attempt at a blind test. Hook up both wires to the receiver or amp. Pick whatever musical selection you think best illustrates an audible difference. Now have someone, not you, flip a coin 10x (20x is better but may take too long...your call of course) and record heads and tails. Let's arbitrarily assign heads to your Taras. With you legitimately blindfolded, the two friends who are behind the speakers will look at the H/T outcome and connect whatever cable corresponded to the sequence. They of course will offer no assistance. Now you listen and after each switch state whether it was the Taras or the Cobalts you listened to. After 10 sessions, compare your results to what was actually played. If you can do this say with say a 90% success rate, then you can confidently state you can tell the difference.

 

[Shane Martin]

Alan,
Enjoy your cables. An individual I somewhat trust has recommended these as well and I might give them a go as well.

 

[AlanZ]

Thanks Shane....and if you go with the Cobalt's, I hope you enjoy them as well.....just don't let Chu Gai know that you got them

Chu, I understand what you are saying. Honest, I do. And I'm not saying you are wrong as it pertains to anything other than my own experience. All I can really focus on right now is the fact that 1) I am not one who enjoys throwing money out the window, and 2) from what I can tell, the Cobalt Ultimate Speaker Cables in MY system and in MY listening environment made some sort of sonic difference that I found appealing. I'm pretty familiar with what my system sounds like. When something is different - better or worse - I feel pretty confident that I notice it. The studio/100's are a good, solid mid-fi speaker pair and for whatever reason, I feel they sound a little better today than they did yesterday. Not sure why. At this point, Im not even sure I care why. All I know is that they do, and as of right now I attribute that to the cables. That's good enough for me. And as sarcastic as I've been in response to your posts, I do respect your opinion and Im glad we have this type of forum to engage in such exchanges. We're all better off in the long run because of it. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go meet with a guy who's giving me a great trade-up deal on my studios for some Bose gear.

 

[Chu Gai]

They're a fine speaker and I'm sure you're enjoying matters with the new speaker wire. Overpaying is a relative term after all in tall buildings, one man's floor is another man's ceiling. Don't worry about being sarcastic. Typing and responding on forums isn't the easiest way in the world to communicate and if you've ever watched any BBC Parliament debates or the upcoming presidential elections, this is pretty mild stuff.
The way I see it is that you've got a pretty golden opportunity here to put your observations to the test. You've got an evaluation period where you can do a little science. All that's involved is what I said above. You'll be doing what every audiophile swears is important. You'd be using your ears...just not your sight or advanced knowledge. This isn't about me proving one thing or the other or about gloating. It's about you finding out about you. Regardless of the outcome, you'll walk away with something pretty precious and that's knowledge. Now that ain't so bad is it?
So, to draw this to somewhat of a close, let's have a beer, shall we? For some reason, I always lick my lips afterwards...must be the hops or something.

 

[RayMan]

I just read through this whole thread..

All I can say is if any speaker wire (no matter what the price) can make Clay Aiken listenable, not only am I getting some, Im gonna double up on it!:wink:

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

It's a no win situation... If Chu is right and there is no difference, then that means people got ripped off plain and simple. However, if Chu is wrong, then everyone that listened to him has been missing out on sonic goodness. This is what leads to the cable wars because there's going to have to be somebody that's wrong. Oh, and by thinking "It all depends on that person's ears" is just being passive.

Whats tough about this argument is that perhaps psychoacoustics does play a big role in enjoying music. Maybe those who bought more expensive cables are able to enjoy their music more than somebody that felt they cut a corner and bought the cheapest. Even if it is purely psychological, it can still make a difference in the way you perceive the sound.

An example of this is how you can tell a friend that this speaker sounds awsome and play it as you describe all the nuances and qualities. Then do the exact opposite by describing the sound as dull and lifeless while playing the exact same speaker. The only thing that separates the first speaker from the second is in their head, which can still be a big difference.

I have a job this weekend installing a nice home theater in Palos Verdes. The entire budget is approx. $10,000 and its in a 15'x17'x8' room.

This includes a 42" Panasonic EDTV plasma and tilt wall mount, 15" DIY sub with 1000 watts. 4 Aura pro bass shakers in Berkline recliners powered by 120 watts. Sound will be from 5 GR-Research AV all around with Sonicaps in piano gloss black. It includes a 7.1 Receiver HK AVR-7200, a Pioneer 563A DVD player, and I'm including AVIA to set it up. I'm also setting up the entertainment rack out of birch, and running the surround speaker wires over the attic to the rear.

With that in mind, I am responsible for all the video and audio wiring and cables which is why I thought I'd share my stock.

I have a 1,000 foot box of shielded RG6 catv. This thing costed me $55 during the 50% off buyout. I can use this for component video cables since its rated at bandwidths up to 2.2ghz, or it makes a decent subwoofer interconnect.

I have 500 feet of Monster Cable MV2 series audio signal cable which was only like 9 cents per foot. This wire is for audio interconnects where i may need some flexibility cause its more like a wet noodle than the stiff RG6 coax. Plus it is manufactured by Monster cable so I can tell the client that so he'll sleep better.

I have 14GA 2 conductor in-wall HQ speaker wire from Parts Express which costed $112 for a 500 foot roll. I use this for wiring the speakers and havn't had any complaints. I've used Sound King 14 gauge speaker wire also successfully. (I also have done a backyard installation using 14 gauge direct burial wire which sounds perfectly fine at lengths of about 50 feet.)

As for the connectors, I use basic solder Neutrik connectors or RCA super plugs from parts express. They only cost about $1 each. Then I use heatshrink to color code, and techflex flexo wrap & zip ties to organize.

One guy is using an IC i made using Dayton Microphone/signal cable and Neutrik connectors. He not only got a custom length of 15 feet, but it only costs $4 for connectors plus a couple bucks for the length of wire. The speakers he uses it for is a pair of Jordan JX92s on a 50wpc gainklone. We tried other interconnects such as Radio shack gold series in which there was no difference during a blind test so he's happy with it.

I guess this means that I don't buy into the expensive interconnects and wires, but at least I don't use the $2 nickel RCA interconnects that come with your DVD player or VCR. Although... I've never tested if I could hear a difference from a DIY $10 IC vs the generic $2 IC.

Oh, want some high end speaker wire. Get a 14 gauge copper foil inductor (like jantzen or Alpha core) and unravel it and protect it with clear PVC tape. The copper is good quality, and its thin to reduce skin effect for those worrying about that. This wire will probably be better than the internal wiring in your speaker plus it looks cool. hehe

 

[Lewis Besze]

I have those Cobalt cables you have,and they "sounded" just like the 12 guage Home Depot cable it replaced.It stayed because it's much more prettier.
Vanity is definitelly one of my "deadly sins".
Enjoy!

 

[Chu Gai]

If it's not a 100% copper center conductor and instead it's copper over steel, you're using the wrong stuff. Proper type of material for the job at hand.

The microphone cable works fine for interconnects. Usually the capacitance isn't a problem.

Sometime back I posted in Tweaks about some company that made silver plated video cables. Damned if I can remember the name but I believe the company that they're a part of, Extron, is phasing out the business. Might be able to get a deal on those perhaps. As to why I'm suggesting silver over copper? Easier to solder.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

Thanks for mentioning that Chu, the 1000ft RG6 should have a solid copper conductor according to the description.

It's parts express #100-382

"Excellent cable for today's high bandwidth equipment. CATV rated and tested up to 2.2 GHz. Solid copper 18 ga. center conductor with foam dielectric. Foil shield with aluminum braid provides 85% shielding. Sequential foot markers on the wire that start at 1,000 ft. This allows you to easily see how much wire is left in the box when wiring multiple runs throughout the home or business. Device and zone markings make it easy to mark the wires so they are easily identified when terminating. Convenient pay out box doesn't get tangled when pulling wire. UL verified."

It's no Belden 89259, but I hope it'll get the job done. If not i'll have to just buy him some monster cables or just go with Dayton ICs.

 

[Chu Gai]

I was just playing it safe Chris...didn't want to see you run the wire and say oops!

 

[John F. Palacio]

A while back I read an amusing anecdote by Bob Carver. Mr. Carver, for those of you who do not know of him, was the founder of Phase Linear, then Carver Audio and now heads the Sunfire Corporation. He is a well regarded designer and engineer with a long list of innovations and patents too long to list here. He, like most other audio engineers, adhered to the theory that speaker wire held no mysteries and that as long as you used cable of sufficient gauge on normal distances, there could be no audible differences between them.

One day, the story continues, he decided to try a set of very expensive silver speaker wires with a new amplifier he was working on to reassure and amuse himself.

To his astonishement he heard a dramatic difference when the new silver wire was installed. He spoke of a wider stage, cleaner midrange and a host of other improvements.

Totally mistified as to how this could be, he decided to perform a double blind test. Using the exact same equipment as before, he could NOT distinguish the difference between the two cables this time around.

The moral of the story? The human brain can play incredible tricks! Even a seasoned unbeleiver can be "
tricked" into "hearing" differences that are simply not there.

 

[Charles Gurganus]

For everyone spending wads of cash on cables I have a proposal. How about letting me cut your lawn and instead of a normal rate of $25 hour I need to get $100 an hour because I use a Snapper lawn mower. That snapper does a better job at cutting the grass than the Murray you are used to using. You can then sit on your front porch and marvel at the difference.

 

[ChuckRG]

Cables, cables, cables...

Check out the article on the bluejeans cable site. A rational, engineering explanation for why cables can be different (not that you can actually hear the difference)

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...wirematter.htm

 

[RobertR]

Even better, Tom Nousaine has done experiments in which people were convinced they heard differences when listening to the same cable.

If you enjoy the "difference", feel free, but don't ever kid yourself about where it comes from.