Looney Tunes Censored 11 comes to Warner Archive in 2011! (1 Viewer)

[Joe Lugoff]

Having all the Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes cartoons in chronological order is probably a classic cartoon lover's greatest desire. It could have been done if people would have been more flexible about it. For instance, they could have started with 1940 (if it were so imperative to have Bugs Bunny in every set) and included the 1930s cartoons as extras with each set (maybe 1930 with 1940, 1931 with 1941, etc.) It's not so neat and orderly, but it gets over the horror of having a "Buddy" set! But I'm wondering: How many discs would be required for a massive, complete, chronological set released all at once? I know there were about 1,000 cartoons. If the average length of a cartoon is 7 minutes, that's 7,000 minutes or about 116 hours. If they could jam 5 hours on a disc, that would be about 23 discs. If extras were included, it might be 25 discs. If they could sell that for $250 even I, with limited funds, would jump at it.

 

[Timothy E]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff
Having all the Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes cartoons in chronological order is probably a classic cartoon lover's greatest desire. It could have been done if people would have been more flexible about it. For instance, they could have started with 1940 (if it were so imperative to have Bugs Bunny in every set) and included the 1930s cartoons as extras with each set (maybe 1930 with 1940, 1931 with 1941, etc.) It's not so neat and orderly, but it gets over the horror of having a "Buddy" set!
But I'm wondering: How many discs would be required for a massive, complete, chronological set released all at once? I know there were about 1,000 cartoons. If the average length of a cartoon is 7 minutes, that's 7,000 minutes or about 116 hours. If they could jam 5 hours on a disc, that would be about 23 discs. If extras were included, it might be 25 discs. If they could sell that for $250 even I, with limited funds, would jump at it.

I would also jump at it, and so would other fans.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

If they could jam 5 hours on a disc, that would be about 23 discs. If extras were included, it might be 25 discs. If they could sell that for $250 even I, with limited funds, would jump at it.

For that kind of price point and number of discs, I doubt you'd be getting remastered cartoons for the ones that haven't already been undertaken. I'm sure most fans, having gotten used to the remastered cartoons by now, would be mad if all the previously-unreleased stuff wasn't remastered. There's no way WB would put out a complete set for $250. We'd be lucky to get such a set for twice that price. Doubt it would happen at either price, remastered or not.

 

[David Weicker]

Didn't this recent LT Platinum set have newer cartoons on it that have never been released before?

That's actually a problem I've had with the Platinum releases. I would have preferred either a complete double-dip, or no double-dips. Then "I" would be the one making the decision on whether to add it to my collection. Forcing someone to double-dip in order to get fresh titles is what I dislike. David

 

[ChrisALM]

Originally Posted by rmw650
Didn't this recent LT Platinum set have newer cartoons on it that have never been released before? I'm referring to the second volume of the set. As for Popeye, just hoping a Volume 4 that contains those Famous Studios toons will be released in the summertime months this year to continue the series.

There are fewer double dips on Volume 2, but the majority of cartoons on the set were previously released.
I hope Popeye continues, too. The B & W sets are excellent and I hope we get at least the same quality.

Originally Posted by David Weicker
That's actually a problem I've had with the Platinum releases. I would have preferred either a complete double-dip, or no double-dips. Then "I" would be the one making the decision on whether to add it to my collection. Forcing someone to double-dip in order to get fresh titles is what I dislike.
David

Good point. I would think the Censored 11 would be released as a stand alone set without double dips.

 

[Pooch]

Hi,

Forcing someone to double-dip in order to get fresh titles is what I dislike. David

Technically, no one is forcing you to double-dip. With all due respect, no one has put a gun to your head (or your wallet) and demanded that you absolutely positively HAVE to buty this set now, or else. We have all, I am sure, double-dipped on stuff, at some point in our lives, to get a complete (or more complete) collection of something, be that books, music, or films. We probably did it when upgrading from VHS to DVD, and then from DVD to Blu-Ray, and if there is another physical media format in the future, I suspect many (if not most) will end-up upgrading once more. However, at no point has any of us been forced to buy anything. We're all people with free will. We're all people with choices. You can buy, or you can not buy. But no one gets forced to buy something, if they don't want too. The irony is, that most of us WILL buy the new set/collection/item, because - as human beings - we like things to be complete. We enjoy owning everything, nor just parts of things. It's in our nature. And the DVD/Blu-Ray companies know that, and that's why they tempt us into double-dipping, and why we then part with our hard-earned cash, just for the sake of one-or-two extra things. The only way we may be able to stop them, is to not buy their products. However, how many of us are actually going to do that?! Pooch

 

[David Weicker]

Forcing someone to double-dip in order to get fresh titles is what I dislike. David

Hi, Technically, no one is forcing you to double-dip. With all due respect, no one has put a gun to your head (or your wallet) and demanded that you absolutely positively HAVE to buty this set now, or else. We have all, I am sure, double-dipped on stuff, at some point in our lives, to get a complete (or more complete) collection of something, be that books, music, or films. We probably did it when upgrading from VHS to DVD, and then from DVD to Blu-Ray, and if there is another physical media format in the future, I suspect many (if not most) will end-up upgrading once more. However, at no point has any of us been forced to buy anything. We're all people with free will. We're all people with choices. You can buy, or you can not buy. But no one gets forced to buy something, if they don't want too. The irony is, that most of us WILL buy the new set/collection/item, because - as human beings - we like things to be complete. We enjoy owning everything, nor just parts of things. It's in our nature. And the DVD/Blu-Ray companies know that, and that's why they tempt us into double-dipping, and why we then part with our hard-earned cash, just for the sake of one-or-two extra things. The only way we may be able to stop them, is to not buy their products. However, how many of us are actually going to do that?! Pooch

While I agree that there was not gun-to-the-head moment, if you notice, there were two parts to my referenced sentence. Because of the way this release was structured, the company was saying 'if you want title B, you also have to repurchase title A. You can't purchase title B alone'. So you are right, we have a choice on whether to purchase the combo A&B. But if we want title B, we are left without the choice of not re-purchasing title A David

 

[Pooch]

Hi David,

Because of the way this release was structured, the company was saying 'if you want title B, you also have to repurchase title A. You can't purchase title B alone'. So you are right, we have a choice on whether to purchase the combo A&B. But if we want title B, we are left without the choice of not re-purchasing title A David

I see your point. Apologies for appearing to be so forceful with you. Pooch

 

[Traveling Matt]

For that kind of price point and number of discs, I doubt you'd be getting remastered cartoons for the ones that haven't already been undertaken. I'm sure most fans, having gotten used to the remastered cartoons by now, would be mad if all the previously-unreleased stuff wasn't remastered. There's no way WB would put out a complete set for $250. We'd be lucky to get such a set for twice that price. Doubt it would happen at either price, remastered or not.

Exactly. Another consideration is the 360+ cartoons already released on DVD or Blu. A complete $250 set, if it even happened, would be more than 1/3 double dipped. The only answer I see, which I've advocated for years now, is for WHV to completely revamp their approach to the remaining films. In the most recent Stu's Show, Jerry Beck revealed that Platinum Volume 2 - only the second volume in the series - had done poorly. If WHV needed to be further convinced that the LTs are a difficult sell at mass retail these days, they shouldn't any longer. They need to specifically work to finish the library. That most likely means some sort of model where they remaster the films, forget bonus features, streamline the number of discs per set, and target collectors through a limited edition series probably sold online. In other words, systematic focus similar to the Walt Disney Treasures, but limited in target and specific in marketing like the recent UPA Jolly Frolics set. Another option is to simply remaster the remaining films as part of preservation. It's their flagship series after all. It should be important enough to be done with or without home video.

 

[JoeDoakes]

I have no problem with double dips, especially when it's the result of moving from DVD to blu ray. As a general rule, titles where fans are willing to double dip get the best treatment from the studios. That said, I have never liked how the Looney Tunes have been released. I think that if they had gone chronologically from the advent of Bugs Bunny I would be more satisfied. Furthermore, some unexplained factor seems to be playing a role in how they are getting released. My guess is either WB has a lot to pay for music clearances or they have an oppressive managerial accouting system that charges every dime spent on a Looney Tunes transfer or restoration against profitability for a specific release, and that tends to deter WB personnel from wanting to do a broad restoration of the library. Heck, some frames of missing title cards came up at a low price on ebay a few years ago, and I think Jerry Beck said that WB was uninterested.

 

[JoeDoakes]

I have no problem with double dips, especially when it's the result of moving from DVD to blu ray. As a general rule, titles where fans are willing to double dip get the best treatment from the studios. That said, I have never liked how the Looney Tunes have been released. I think that if they had gone chronologically from the advent of Bugs Bunny I would be more satisfied. Furthermore, some unexplained factor seems to be playing a role in how they are getting released. My guess is either WB has a lot to pay for music clearances or they have an oppressive managerial accouting system that charges every dime spent on a Looney Tunes transfer or restoration against profitability for a specific release, and that tends to deter WB personnel from wanting to do a broad restoration of the library. Heck, some frames of missing title cards came up at a low price on ebay a few years ago, and I think Jerry Beck said that WB was uninterested.

 

[Ruz-El]

Add me to the camp that would of preferred chronological sets from the get go as well. Currently in the land of comic books (where I'm going to guess there is no money to be made compared to Loony Tunes cartoons) publisher Fantagraphics launched a program to release a complete library of Carl Barks Donald Duck stories, in handsome affordable hard cover books. They are an absolute treat. Instead of starting at the beginning, they started around the middle of Barks run when he was starting to fire on all cylinders. As a result, the first book released is actually Volume 7 of what well eventually be a complete library. The hope is that by starting with the legendary stuff (and it really is fantastic reading, you wont look at "Raiders of the Lost Ark" the same way again after reading "Lost in the Andes") they will get enough fans on board and generate enough cash to fund the entire project. So far it seems to be working. I can't help but think a similar program with the Loony Tunes wouldn't have worked. As much as I love Bugs Bunny, those all Bugs toons discs and what not get to be a chore compared to the discs that shuffle up the program a bit. A chrono set would of frankly played better. Maybe Warner's will try this with the MGM library they have.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

I think WB already blew their wad by seperating the Tom and Jerry's from the others.

 

[Peter M Fitzgerald]

If it were up to me, this is how I would've set up a Collector's Series of the classic Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies shorts on Blu: I'd make the prime material on the sets chronological, but not starting from the very beginning of the studio, nor from the debut of Bugs Bunny. Instead, I'd begin at 1935 with the first short with Porky Pig, I HAVEN'T GOT A HAT (1935), and then jump ahead slightly to the first 'Termite Terrace'-made short (and Tex Avery's debut), GOLD DIGGERS OF '49 (1936), and go chronologically from there. It's at this point where you see the funny stuff really begin, the creation of Porky, Daffy, Elmer and (embryonic) Bugs Bunny, and the beginnings and rapid development of directors Tex Avery, Frank Tashlin, Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones, plus the Carl Stalling music. The chronology of the sets would then run ultimately to SENORELLA AND THE GLASS HUARACHE (1964), the last of the 'true' Warner Bros cartoons (the rather weak shorts after that, mostly latter-day Daffy/Speedy and the post-Chuck Jones Roadrunner shorts, were made at DePatie Freleng, and then a smaller bunch from the Bill Hendricks studio (the last handful of Daffy/Speedy, plus Merlin the Magic Mouse, Chimp & Zee, Cool Cat, Bunny & Claude, NORMAN NORMAL and THE DOOR). I'd up the number of featured shorts per disc to 25-30, and the number of discs in a set (at least for the first set, so that it doesn't lack Bugs Bunny) to 5 or 6. The 'Censored 11' (and whatever other shorts the studio deems to similarly be too problematic these days) I'd remove from the general chronology and release as a separate Blu disc, sold through Warner Archive, so that those who truly find them repellent wouldn't be forced to take them with the popular stuff, and the main sets then, by the same token, wouldn't risk being made a big target for protest. I'd limit the pre-1936 shorts to some disc extras that are notable milestones (BOSKO THE TALK-INK KID, SINKIN' IN THE BATHTUB, LADY PLAY YOUR MANDOLIN, IT'S GOT ME AGAIN, BUDDY'S BEER GARDEN, HONEYMOON HOTEL) and a few cult items (BOSKO'S MECHANICAL MAN, BUDDY'S LOST WORLD, A CARTOONIST'S NIGHTMARE), leaving the bulk of them to be handled by Warner Archive, since the antics of Bosko & Honey, Foxy, Piggy, Goopy Geer, Buddy, Ham & Ex and the earlier 'inanimate-objects-come-to-life' cartoons have fairly limited appeal. The post-SENORELLA shorts of the 1960s I'd do likewise, unless they could just be blended-in as a series of disc extras in the last couple of sets, if they continued to sell well enough to make it to the early-1960s cartoons. Perhaps they could be released as a smaller, final set; alone, or combined with the small number of new shorts from the last couple of decades. Set #1 wouldn't be given a generic 'Looney Tunes Platinum Collection Vol. 1' title, but rather the more accurate 'Looney Tunes Platinum Collection 1: The Dawn of Termite Terrace', 'Looney Tunes Platinum Collection 2: The 1940s, Part I', etc. Under these conditions, especially with 30 shorts per disc in (primarily) 5-disc sets, all the WB cartoons that really count (and not just the most famous/popular ones) would be accounted for within 6 Blu collections, plus the separate 'Censored 11' Blu release, without the burnout effect of having too many of one character (or director) on a given disc, or front-loading the biggest shorts in the first couple of sets, only to have consumer interest flag in subsequent sets.

 

[Theodore J. Mooney]

If it were up to me, this is how I would've set up a Collector's Series of the classic Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies shorts on Blu: I'd make the prime material on the sets chronological, but not starting from the very beginning of the studio, nor from the debut of Bugs Bunny. Instead, I'd begin at 1935 with the first short with Porky Pig, I HAVEN'T GOT A HAT (1935), and then jump ahead slightly to the first 'Termite Terrace'-made short (and Tex Avery's debut), GOLD DIGGERS OF '49 (1936), and go chronologically from there. It's at this point where you see the funny stuff really begin, the creation of Porky, Daffy, Elmer and (embryonic) Bugs Bunny, and the beginnings and rapid development of directors Tex Avery, Frank Tashlin, Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones, plus the Carl Stalling music.

I can only speak for myself but starting in year 1935 and going from there wouldn't attract me at first. First, I have little interest in these early shorts given that the majority of them are in black and white. Second, I am not really big on Porky Pig and the early LT characters such as Bosko, Beans, Egghead Elmer, Sniffles, ect. And I don't care for the war-time theme. These do nothing for me. Third, there are hardly any major LT stars in this era (except for Porky). At least with the post-1964 era, we had Daffy, Speedy, Road Runner & Wile E. Coyote and Granny. And in regards to the early cartoons of Elmer Fudd, Daffy Duck, and Bugs Bunny - I believe these shorts are already available on DVD/Blue-Ray in some form ... at least a majority of them. So there's no need to release this era of Looney Tunes right away. As a collector and a fan, I would rather see the Looney Tunes chronological collection begin at year 1945 as that was more or less the starting point where the rest of the major LT stars began to emerge onto the scene (such as Foghorn Leghorn, Tweety & Sylvester, Yosemite Sam, Road Runner & Wilie E. Coyote, Pepe Le Pew, The Goofy Gophers, Hippity Hopper, ect.) and go all the way to the very end of the classic era - 1969. These are the cartoon shorts that a majority of people (and probably collectors too) grew up on and have fond memories of. So these should be released first with the '40-'44 shorts following thereafter and then the pre-40s. I know I am not the only one who feels this way. I was watching one of the Golden Collections DVDs with a friend and an old 1938 black and white Porky Pig cartoon came on (I believe it was "Porky Pig in Egypt") and I said "lets skip this one" and my friend said, "yeah, I know ... this is boring, I didn't grow up on this one". Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with these early shorts being available but they should not be released before the more familiar shorts of the beloved Looney Tunes gang. .

 

[Peter M Fitzgerald]

I can only speak for myself but starting in year 1935 and going from there wouldn't attract me at first. First, I have little interest in these early shorts given that the majority of them are in black and white. Second, I am not really big on Porky Pig and the early LT characters such as Bosko, Beans, Egghead Elmer, Sniffles, ect. And I don't care for the war-time theme. These do nothing for me. Third, there are hardly any major LT stars in this era (except for Porky). At least with the post-1964 era, we had Daffy, Speedy, Road Runner & Wile E. Coyote and Granny. And in regards to the early cartoons of Elmer Fudd, Daffy Duck, and Bugs Bunny - I believe these shorts are already available on DVD/Blue-Ray in some form ... at least a majority of them. So there's no need to release this era of Looney Tunes right away. As a collector and a fan, I would rather see the Looney Tunes chronological collection begin at year 1945 as that was more or less the starting point where the rest of the major LT stars began to emerge onto the scene (such as Foghorn Leghorn, Tweety & Sylvester, Yosemite Sam, Road Runner & Wilie E. Coyote, Pepe Le Pew, The Goofy Gophers, Hippity Hopper, ect.) and go all the way to the very end of the classic era - 1969. These are the cartoon shorts that a majority of people (and probably collectors too) grew up on and have fond memories of. So these should be released first with the '40-'44 shorts following thereafter and then the pre-40s. I know I am not the only one who feels this way. I was watching one of the Golden Collections DVDs with a friend and an old 1938 black and white Porky Pig cartoon came on (I believe it was "Porky Pig in Egypt") and I said "lets skip this one" and my friend said, "yeah, I know ... this is boring, I didn't grow up on this one". Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with these early shorts being available but they should not be released before the more familiar shorts of the beloved Looney Tunes gang. .

I guess it's a good thing for you that it's not up to me, then!

 

[Pooch]

HI, From the past few comments, it seems then that Warners are actually doing what some of you seem to want: namely mixing in the popular stuff with the not-so-popular stuff, so that each collection is a nice mix of classics, interesting oddities, and rarer or lesser-seen shorts. To be fair, no matter what Warners did, somone, somewhere would be jumping up and down, and getting mightily pissed at Warners, because their chosen chronology isn't how John Doe wants it to be released, so ultimately, Warners are always going to end up hacking some of you off. As long as Warners release all of them, and give them the deluxe treatment, then I will continue to buy them, irrespective of order of release. Pooch

 

[Kevin Martinez]

HI, From the past few comments, it seems then that Warners are actually doing what some of you seem to want: namely mixing in the popular stuff with the not-so-popular stuff, so that each collection is a nice mix of classics, interesting oddities, and rarer or lesser-seen shorts. To be fair, no matter what Warners did, somone, somewhere would be jumping up and down, and getting mightily pissed at Warners, because their chosen chronology isn't how John Doe wants it to be released, so ultimately, Warners are always going to end up hacking some of you off. As long as Warners release all of them, and give them the deluxe treatment, then I will continue to buy them, irrespective of order of release. Pooch

No they aren't. What they are actually doing is packaging cartoons that were already on the Golden Collections with new-to-dic shorts, so if you want any of those new cartoons, you have to buy DVD's where the majority of cartoons are those you already have. Whether they're chronological or not, 100% new-to-DVD collections HAVE to be the wave of the future. As the poor sales of Platinum V2. have shown, people have gotten sick of double dips REALLY fast.

 

[Traveling Matt]

I don't know that it's double dips so much as oversaturation. The mass retail base WHV insists on targeting likely doesn't know which specific cartoons they bought ten years ago. My guess is most people have a general awareness of which cartoons are the greats, and they know they already have them on the Golden Collections; the lack of interest in said cartoons for Blu would seem a natural result. It would be interesting to see how an online model, such as I propose, would be handled. My instinct is to say it's far too late to try something different now, regardless of target audience, as dancing around 1/3 of the catalog would be very haphazard for a "chronological" effort.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

It's both. In the years since the Golden Collections, there have been Platinum Collections, a Showcase collection, Super Stars DVD's, Essential Bugs and Daffy sets, and miscellanea like Mouse Chronicles and those Best of Bugs Bunny/Looney Tunes Unleashed DVD's. And on top of that, the Golden and Spotlight collections are still in print (the Spotlights, in fact, are still in stock at every Wal-Mart I've checked). So you've got a ton of different configurations of Warner cartoons, some of which "claim" to be aimed at collectors but every last one is in fact ultimately aimed at the "casual" buyers, and ALL of which regurgitate material from the Golden Collections in various quantities..Warner's post-GC strategy has been so thoughtless and hapless that its no wonder sales are down across the board.