Looks like the Donner cut of Superman II may have jumped through its legal hurdles!!! (1 Viewer)

[Tom Brennan]

Superman II was released in the US in 1981, but it was completed and released in parts of Europe in 1980. You can read about it here.

 

[Tony Whalen]

Damn. The thread title got me excited for nothing.

In the case of Brando footage being used in the new movie... I'll believe it when I hear it directly from Singer.

In the case of a Donner re-cut... I'll believe it when it's in my hands. (I'll still hope for it, of course.)

 

[Charles de Lauzirika]

Yeah, I know. That's what I get for rolling out of bed and posting before being fully awake. Nice to see the spirit of "Neil S. Bulk" still alive here at HTF though.

I hope Warners can make this happen. I was (and still am) a huge fan of "Superman The Movie" but even as a kid, "Superman II" left me with mixed feelings. It wasn't until 1984 when I got to visit the set of "The Goonies" and was filled in on the troubled "Superman II" production history that I realized the full extent of how severely Donner (and his work on "Superman II") got shafted.

 

[Kevin M]

Yes but isn't the bigger hurdle that Donner has stated (as was posted here at HTF some time ago) that he has no desire to insult Lester by doing such a thing?
I know I read that quote from Donner somewhere around here.

 

[James Phillips]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this turned out to be true.

The BBC's Imagine programme showed an extended version of Iain Johnstone's interview with Brando from the Making of Superman documentary, late last year. The ownership of that footage (along with all the extra material from Superman The Movie and Superman II) was part of the legal battle between Warner Brothers and Pueblo Film Licensing. So it seems very likely that there's been some movement on the legal front.

However, I'm not too sure about the idea itself. If this footage is being shown as a flashback to events that happened in Superman II (even if Reeve is replaced by Routh in these scenes), then surely for it to make sense, the original scenes would have to be reinserted into Superman II, since they contradict scenes in the released version of the film?

If it's not linked to Superman II, then I'd prefer it if they got someone else to play Jor-El.

As for the Donner re-cut, as I mentioned in one of the other threads, after the release of the first film, Donner suspected that the Salkinds were going to release Superman II with just the footage he had already shot. So some kind of re-cut just using that footage would certainly be possible.

As it is, there are really only a few important scenes missing from Donner's version. The NASA Control Room scenes, the Texas Rangers scene, and some Metropolis action footage featuring Non smashing up police vehicles, etc. Fifteen minutes of screen time at the most, I'd say. The rest is just blue screen footage that needs to be composited, and some model effects footage.

If the will was there, I think they could easily complete these scenes, even today.

 

[David_Blackwell]

I would like to see an extended alternate uncut of Superman 2. I'm all for it. Bring it on.

 

[Chris Farmer]

As someone who only knows the end result (Donner got Supes II ripped out form under him and another director finished the job), can someone who knows more then I fill in the story of what happened here?

 

[WillG]

If that is the case, perhaps Lester would extend Donner that same respect and give his blessing for a re-cut.

 

[Sean Richardson]

A lot, and none of it is on the record. There are a few websites devoted to it. Here's one I just found:
http://superman.rossiters.com/s2_main.html

There's a better one out there, I'll try to find it, but the last time I looked, it had been shut down.

UPDATE: I found it, and it's gone now. Shame, that site had it explained very well. A lot of the ones that are left only have half-information, like a quote from Margot Kidder about how Donner's cut exists in a vault somewhere (something Donner himself has denied).

 

[James Phillips]

But what if Donner was able to shoot new footage for it?

 

[Dave H]

All I know is the thread title should be changed with question marks.

Nick, you need to use better judgment with this kind of thing. There isn't enough evidence to make such a certain claim.

 

[Paul_Scott]

assuming he could get by with a lot of longshots, why wouldn't someone be able to shoot figures in the same costumes (with a blue stocking over their head to key out) and then digitally composite 'head shots' over them.

this was done with a stunt double for Chris Lee in ATOC for the saber duel.
i don't see why it couldn't be done here.

i think current technology could allow Donner to get extraordinarly close to his original 'vision' using scraps, b roll, and other 'puzzel pieces'.

 

[Mike_Richardson]

This is absolutely crazy. I'm all for Donner getting his deleted scenes out there -- but you can't go back in time and have him *not* get fired from SUPERMAN II. It happened, Lester directed the movie, and that's that.

His "vision" would be impossible to reconstruct because much of what he wanted to do wasn't even filmed, and inserting digital figures and a CGI Christopher Reeve to make it happen with what scraps of footage they have -- sorry but I'd take Lester's SUPERMAN II any day over that blasphemy.

 

[AlexCosmo]

well I dont know if it's blasphemy to replace a DOLL of Christopher Reeve (the flying shots in the current S2) with a digital version of the same thing. And why does a new version of the movie have to be all Donner or nothing? The movie's been a hybrid for twenty+ years already.

 

[John Sullmeyer]

I'm sure if all things align, Donner will get his version out one of these days.

 

[Doug Graham]

The thread title says "may have." There isn't anything remotely certain about that. Maybe Nick got a bit overexcited, but don't be so anal.

 

[Dharmesh C]

Are you talking about Superman CINEMA? It's moved to supermancinema.co.uk

BTW Donner was approached to redo Superman 1 and 2 for DVD back in 2000 but he ignored it.

Ilya Salkind is happy to do Superman 2

 

[Sean Richardson]

I was under the impression that 'Superman 1' was recut for the DVD release.

And, as for the link, THANK YOU, that's a great site and I was really sorry to see it go.

For those looking to get the full story on 'Superman 2' -- waaaay more story than you actually want -- here's the link: http://supermancinema.co.uk/superman2/real_s2/index.htm

Great, great site. Thank you, Dharmesh.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Well, I am sure Neil would have caught that error a good hour or so before I did!

I really hope this can happen, the upcoming Warner chat might shed some light...

 

[Drew Reiber]

As quoted earlier from Richard Donner in 1979:



Donner had a lot to do with the presentation of that DVD, but at the time he did not want to deal with the offer of recutting Superman II. We must bear in mind, however, that the atmosphere at Warner and in the industry in regards to the franchise has changed dramatically since that time.

In those same articles regarding the re-release of Superman: The New Movie, Donner admitted to being very upset with them that they did not seek him out while they attempted to relaunch the franchise. Things were slowing down in terms of development (Oliver Stone had just passed after the Burton/Cage film fell apart) and yet he was being kept at a distance.

Now you have one of his protege's and previous collaborators (on X-Men), Bryan Singer, going to Donner personally to ask for his advice and blessing. Singer has been conspiring to restore the Donner continuity for "many years" and his effort to use the Brando footage is, in his mind, a way of repairing even more damage we all previously thought to be permanent. If the Lester version of Superman II will always be in the minds of those who grew up with it, why not go *around* that fact and just restore the Donner moments through other means?

Anyway, getting back to my point, Singer (and thus Warner) are not going back to the Salkind's continuity, they are going back to Donner's. The man's work has unfortunately been largely ignored by my generation, which I believe is due to the complexity of the issues involved in explaining away the increasingly horrible sequels. In much of the same way time will weigh heavily upon the various franchises due to the Star Wars prequels, Star Trek and Matrix sequels, Superman has been lost to time because it was just too painful to drudge up the memories of a Richard Pryor anti-villain and Lex Luthor's nephew.

Now a whole new generation, and very likely those who still remember the original films, are going to be thrust back into the universe that Donner risked his entire career to bring us. His name is going to be thrown all over the place by Singer, Warner Home Video and fans alike in 2006. As horrible as it is to say something like this, you must admit that Brando's death could not have happened at a more opportune moment in time in order to increase the possibility of relinquishing his II footage to the use in either a new cut of the sequel or Superman Returns.

This is a very exciting time we are living in right now, as I don't think anyone has attempted what Singer is doing right now. Sending us back in time 25+ years and repairing damage that until now was considered irreversable even by Hollywood means. With all the news that keeps hitting us about this being the new Superman III, Brando possibly appearing in the film and ultra-nerdy continuity nods like Martha Kent's neighbor (mentioned in The New Movie '78) being cast for Returns... how can any one of us assume to have a grasp on what possibilities are open to us longtime fans right now? Heck, Warner Home Video may not even have an idea on what's going on yet with all the pratical issues (rights & footage) and Singer's improvisational skills as a filmmaker.