Looks like Dolby Vision calibration on 2017 LG OLED's is coming together

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
Negative.

I am considering grabbing a C7 from Robert and keeping both. Next year is a new panel (they are on a 2 year cycle) with a new blue OLED, while the C7 is just an improvement on the 6 panel we already have. Not to keen on grabbing one first year with a new design.

If I do get one, I def want his QC package and the SDR/HDR10/DV calibration.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CraigF

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
^ Since you seem to have a handle on these, do you know if they're doing anything to increase the maximum brightness (for HDR)? To at least get it into the parking lot of the ballpark of LCD's capability. Is that what the new blue OLED will do, since blue is usually the dimmest and limiting factor in emissive brightness?
 

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
^ Since you seem to have a handle on these, do you know if they're doing anything to increase the maximum brightness (for HDR)? To at least get it into the parking lot of the ballpark of LCD's capability. Is that what the new blue OLED will do, since blue is usually the dimmest and limiting factor in emissive brightness?
Yeah, the Blue is supposed to be more efficient and live longer in the new design coming. I would assume they may achieve 1000 nits in 2018, and may further increase the level ABL kicks in.

The 2017's IMO are pretty mature. SDR/HDR10/HLG/DV calibration, very good brightness in HDR, and ABL does not kick in at all if you cal your SDR mode to 150 nits or less, which is great. Nice near black processing and color accuracy too.
 

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
^ Thanks. Don't get me wrong, and don't tell anybody I said it, but I actually prefer that OLEDs don't get as maximally bright as LCDs. I am one of those weirdos who always calibrates my own displays as dim as possible to just meet the ISF standard. I have light control, and bright displays bother me, as do really bright flashing things in relative darkness, gives me a headache after an hour or so. My problem. But I was asking more from the technical standpoint, HDR is about high brightness dynamic range after all (the real benefit of UHD), and LCDs are the winner for that (and IMO only that) aspect, probably always will be between these two techs.
 
Last edited:

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
Yeah, I mean my E6 being 0 to about 720, has been very bright for me. We watch HDR in a dark room, and some scenes have made me squint (like flashlights). I get you want at least 1000 to avoid tone mapping.

I also read more mastering setups are starting to use OLED's, so if they master 0-1000, it should be a good result for OLED owners.
 

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
^ That could be beneficial. The way some movies are continuous bright/action jump cuts, a certain style that seems common these days in some genres, makes these films very hard for me to watch on UHD. A couple of "aspirin" beforehand helps...I do have a backlight, but that doesn't help for this, and brighter room lights spoils the movie illusion for me.
 

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
Been round and round, and ended up where I started. Once everything settles down in a week or two I am going to get up with Robert and pull the trigger on a C7. I could not bring myself to feel the extra $2000 or whatever is worth it for the A1E OLED. Ive grown to love the LG OLED's, and I can grab a C7 before Chad comes in to calibrate it, and stick my lovely E6 in the other room.

Seems the EU got an update for the 2016's for hybrid log gamma, and there are rumors LG may bring the Dolby Vision calibration function to the 2016's. @Robert_Zohn may have some intel here. I just can't see dropping serious coin when you can get these 55 and 65" C7's for a steal, and they are lovely displays. Seeing as Chad comes in Sept, hopefully he will be ready to cal Dolby Vision mode.
 

DavidJ

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Messages
4,060
Real Name
David
^ Thanks. Don't get me wrong, and don't tell anybody I said it, but I actually prefer that OLEDs don't get as maximally bright as LCDs. I am one of those weirdos who always calibrates my own displays as dim as possible to just meet the ISF standard. I have light control, and bright displays bother me, as do really bright flashing things in relative darkness, gives me a headache after an hour or so. My problem. But I was asking more from the technical standpoint, HDR is about high brightness dynamic range after all (the real benefit of UHD), and LCDs are the winner for that (and IMO only that) aspect, probably always will be between these two techs.
It's interesting that you mention this. I found Lego Batman so bright in HDR that it started to give me a bit of a headache. Also, watching Marvel on Netflix recently, there have been scenes where the street light behind a character is so bright that it's distracting. I understand that you've got the range, but it's not always beneficial. Don't get me wrong. 99% of the time I love HDR.
 

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
Been round and round, and ended up where I started. Once everything settles down in a week or two I am going to get up with Robert and pull the trigger on a C7. I could not bring myself to feel the extra $2000 or whatever is worth it for the A1E OLED. Ive grown to love the LG OLED's, and I can grab a C7 before Chad comes in to calibrate it, and stick my lovely E6 in the other room.

Seems the EU got an update for the 2016's for hybrid log gamma, and there are rumors LG may bring the Dolby Vision calibration function to the 2016's. @Robert_Zohn may have some intel here. I just can't see dropping serious coin when you can get these 55 and 65" C7's for a steal, and they are lovely displays. Seeing as Chad comes in Sept, hopefully he will be ready to cal Dolby Vision mode.
I have also moved my thinking to the (65") C7, instead of to any of the others I/you mentioned. I didn't even know we could get the C7 in Canada, but Best Buy exclusively has it (online only, here), and I never buy any A/V gear there (prefer independents) and haven't even been there for years, so didn't think to check there until the other day.

Look, I can get a "good price" on the A1 since it's Sony, and it's not even a consideration for my requirements, even if it was the same price I'd choose the C7 over it. I understand Sony is trying to differentiate from LG, but the A1 isn't good enough. I also prefer the C7's "physicals". IMO etc. I would rather buy Sony though, as you might surmise if you came here, but sometimes it doesn't suit, I'm no fanboy.
 

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
I like Vincent Teoh's HDT Tv Test Youtube channel. He explains both in about 15 mins, and IMO, I prefer the LG when he weighs them out. Plus, if you use the display for streaming (I have started to), Web OS is better than Android. IMO, the A1E is not worth a $1700 price differential. YMMV.


The only other display I am considering right now, over a 65" C7, is the 75" X940E. I am kinda ready for something larger than 65".
 

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
^ I really like Vincent Teoh, haven't seen much of his work, but he is memorable and to the point. I haven't watched the video yet, but thanks for pointing it out, will do. [Edit, after watching: food for thought. Maybe I was too hasty re the A1, and perhaps I gave a little too much weighting to the 1080 gaming aspect, but that's a real usage scenario here, one that LG originally gave short shrift to. And where's the DisplayPorts on these displays...big mistake not to have IMO, even though I wasn't a big "fan" of them, they are a fact of life now to much of the market. Next year... Anyway, no hurry for me to decide, as long as the E6 is here, waiting is beneficial...I think... At the time I wrote the previous post, the 65" A1 was 60% more expensive than the 65" C7 here.]

I am in the somewhat unique position of putting a 65" E6 directly in front of a 60" Pio. This Pio has a large black frame (not really a bezel) as was common in its day, so it is very easy to see what a 67" (diagonal) display would look like compared to a 60" one: no worthwhile diff, remarkably insignificantly more viewing area than 60"->67" might make you think. 65" even less so. That is why I keep whining for a 70" OLED, but even that would be trivial. 80", now that's a real diff compared to 60", I guess 75" would be "OK" :). Not that I'll move the prime sitting location, since it's the "perfect" one for audio in that room, but a noticeably bigger high-quality picture is pretty worthwhile, I'd say, something to get a little excited about.

I am told (by the guy who was with me measuring and [he says] has a better memory than I do...[edit: aaaand...he is correct, dammit!]) that 70" is the largest I can fit without "compromise" or a lot of work, but I could swear it was 75" because it was specifically for a Sony 940 series that we were measuring for. Sony has improved the top end of that series a couple times since that day, and I would say they are true improvements, not just newer models. There is life in LCD tech yet, enough that people who are quite discerning shouldn't automatically write it off.

If you are streaming using Web OS, or any other built-in OS on a TV, you are crippling your streaming experience. Yes, there are economics reasons for doing it, and potentially others too. All the best streamers use Android, so that's not the problem in itself, nor should it be a deciding factor in the slightest for a display purchase at this price-point. But, if it's Netflix you're all about, then Nvidia Shield is probably right up your alley. If not, then there are more good (and cheaper) Android options.

For any Canadians who might be reading: the C7 is now apparently in BB (only) stores. It is also not being offered at the (lower) online-only price, for now. Sales too high? They never had even the E6 in BB stores here, it was full-list-online-only sales, but now they have the E7 and even the G7/W7 in some stores, guess "higher-end" OLED sales are picking up.
 
Last edited:

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
I sub'd to the HDTV Test channel when Vincent started doing these reviews, I love em. One of the few groups doing actual tech reviews of products and explaining them.
 

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
^ He is relatively new to me, but I will definitely pay attention to him in future. That video you linked to was quite a bit more technical than his others I've seen, but still pretty clear and focussed to the promised topic. I would have preferred the comparison with a *65"* C7 though...

"Weird" LG pricing stuff going on in Canada, check your own area if considering purchasing now, things seem to change almost daily here. Speaking of 65" displays only. Today, the C7 got another small jack in price. The B7, C7, and E7 now all cost the same at BB, and none are "on sale" (same for the B7 and E7 at other retailers). Not sure why one wouldn't choose the E7 under that scenario, perhaps a small window of opportunity if that's what somebody really wanted, maybe temporarily over-stocked or such, can't see this maintaining to differentiate product hierarchy. The G6 (!3D!) and G7 are also the same price, both still a fair bit more than I'd like to spend. The Sony A1E is kind of in the middle of those two groups, no changes recently.
 
Last edited:

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
Got a good explanation on the 2017 DV cal process. The sets look pretty good as is because the file for the DV engine is based off measured factory averages. What you do now, with the new version of Calman and the 2017 LG OLED is, take measurements for your specific panel, and then update the engine so instead of using factory averages, it is using the exact data from your panel in the DV mapping engine. All that is left after that is enjoy DV!

I've decided I am grabbing the C7 from Value Electronics soon, and going to go with the QC and calibration package like I did on my E6. E6 will be great in my second room here since I don't have speakers there, and it has a soundbar.
 

CraigF

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
3,117
Location
Toronto area, Canada
Real Name
Craig
It's interesting that you mention this. I found Lego Batman so bright in HDR that it started to give me a bit of a headache. Also, watching Marvel on Netflix recently, there have been scenes where the street light behind a character is so bright that it's distracting. I understand that you've got the range, but it's not always beneficial. Don't get me wrong. 99% of the time I love HDR.
We're not completely alone. Kevin Collins, a pro calibrater who performed measurements in the sticky shootout post above, also made a few comments along similar lines, though didn't say "headache".
 

gadgtfreek

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
856
Real Name
Jason
Im all in on HDR, and we watch all our flicks in a dark room (my OLED is about 720 nits peak). There have been a couple of times, like a flashlight pointed toward the viewer, I have had to squint LOL. Love it.
 

Kevin Collins

Owner, from the first state with COVID-19
Owner
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
4,110
Location
Seattle, WA
Real Name
Kevin Collins
We're not completely alone. Kevin Collins, a pro calibrater who performed measurements in the sticky shootout post above, also made a few comments along similar lines, though didn't say "headache".
Hi Craig,

My comment was strictly in reference to the Sony XBR65X9D that was putting out 1,200 lumens while watching in a dark room and I was sitting about 3 screen heights from the display. It was very uncomfortable. This is why it would be great if Sony worked with ISF and had day and night modes as 1,200 lumens in a dark room is just uncomfortable for material that uses that amount of light. I found 500 lumens less (i.e. on the LG) to not cause discomfort in a dark room at 3 screen heights away. If I would have stayed watching I would have most likely got a headache.

However, if you are not in a light controlled room and not sitting that close to the screen, then the Sony LED will have advantages. Personally, I don't watch content where I care about quality in non-light controlled rooms. When I am in non-light controlled rooms, I am typically more off axis than on-axis as I am moving around. The off-axis of all the LCD panels in the shoot out could not compare with the off-axis viewing of the OLED's. If the Sony OLED was $1K cheaper than the OLED, then there would be a different purchasing criteria for me, but it was $500 more than the Sony OLED and $700 more than the LG OLED.
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,409
Messages
4,709,516
Members
141,264
Latest member
camillabelle01