Looking at Receivers - here is a comparison chart (1 Viewer)

[David Albrecht]

Rich ~ thanks much for taking the time and making an effort to find that info... very cool... much appreciated!
I found a real good price on the 1803 today, $333, but unfortunatley the eTailer is not a 'Denon Authorized Dealer'... so Denon will not honor the warranty. Guess I'll keep looking for that elusive bargin.
here's Denons statement...
The warranty on DENON Electronics products is NOT VALID if the products have been purchased from an unauthorized dealer/on-line E-tailer or if the original factory serial number has been removed, defaced or replaced in any way. Recently DENON Electronics has become aware of numerous instances in which such serial number tampering has occurred. Unauthorized dealers/on-line E-tailers and/or their suppliers frequently alter the serial numbers in an effort to prevent manufacturers from tracing the supplier source. DENON Electronics sell products through authorized retail and on-line channels to insure that consumers obtain quality pre-sale and after-sale support and service. PROTECT YOUR WARRANTY. Buy from an authorized DENON Electronics dealer/E-tailer. Check the unit and its packaging to determine whether the factory serial number may have been altered. If in doubt, call DENON Electronics at (973)396-0810. www.denon.com

 

[Chris Shelly]

About the DPL II being able to do DPL 1 debate. I just bought a Panasonic SA-HE200 receiver and it has 3 modes for DPL II. None of them let you play the movies as originally intended. The 3 modes are Movie, Music or Panorama.

Interestingly it seems most newer models have Movie, Music and Panorama. All of the older designs have Movie, Music and Emulation. Emulation is of coarse the old DPL process. It is like Panorama replaced Emulation but it does not do the same thing. So far I did not find any that have Movie, Music, Panorama and Emulation.

My first audition with DPL II did not go all that well. I was hoping for an option to run regular DPL. I was totally shocked that regular DPL is not included as an option. I thought it was part of the DPL II spec and was needed for noisy sources. Why they are leaving it off I will never know. The jury is still out if I plan to keep this receiver. I think it is total BS that they don't include it and mention it in normal literature.

The good thing is this receiver sounds really nice. Also it is kind of a mute point because I only use Pro Logic about 1% of the time anyway.

 

[Chip E]

My Ref50 has DPLII and DPL. Two distinct choices.

 

[Bob McElfresh]

Leaving off ProLogic decoding could be economics.

Back before Dolby offered the AC3 encoding for DVD's/HD, they had an eariler version called AC2. They charged $125 per unit to include this as a licence fee.

My guess is when building a receiver you have the following license fees:

Dolby Pro Logic: $xx
Dolby Digital: $0 (public standard)
Dolby Pro Logic II:$xx
DTS: $xxx
DTS EX: $xx

All those $xx can add up to $200 or more. When you are trying to sell a receiver for $500 - it's not a small portion of the total cost. Saving money by removing the license for the older standards and replacing it with some DSP mode that you develop in-house is not a bad idea.

(What, you thought Dolby and DTS did not charge for their software? This is what keeps them in business - the per-unit license fee.)

 

[Chris Shelly]

Interesting theory about economics....

I would think that if the manufacture puts in DD/DDEX and DPLII the licensing agreement would include regular DPL. Some manufactures offer both DPL and DPLII in addition to DD EX in low priced ($200) receivers. I fully expect my $400 receiver to have DPL capability.

It would be cool for someone to find out what the licensing cost would actually be.

I found a Sherwood RD-7108 online for $199 plus $25 shipping. I was pretty happy with my RD-7106 until it had a glitch switching on all speakers when running DD/DTS. Anyone know if this can do DPL II and regular DPL? The chart above list all Sherwood models as having the ability to run both. The RD-7108 is not on the list. Is the R-758 just a typo? Sherwood does not even make this model number.

Chris

 

[Bob McElfresh]

On the topic of Video Bandwidth Switching:

I emailed Yamaha about what their numbers & criteria were. Here is the response:

Please specify which receivers you are interested in. Some of our past receivers have been rated at 30mhz of bandwidth, with most of our current models at 60mhz. Our RX-V1 and Z1 has wire switching capability of 100 MHz. 28mhz is whats needed.

So it looks like Yamaha is following the 'times 2' rule for it's current models with 60 Mhz bandwidth on current models.

I will try to get more info about what they mean by "bandwidth".

 

[Robert James Clark]

Re: Yamaha,

Thanks Bob. I appreciate it...

I'm actually interested in the 630 but the bandwidth issue is holding me back as the HD compatibility is the only reason I'm upgrading my receiver.
My other options are the Onkyo 600 and the Sony DA2ES.

Robert

 

[LarryTT]

Bob:

Since I am awaiting on the arrival of my Outlaw 1050 I asked them for the specs of their amp. I was told the pdf is accurate that is on the site. But I also asked them about the amps power rating into a 5.1 load. I was told it is roughly 63 wpc into an 8 Ohm load. I am assuming 0.05% THD as well, but he didn't say. I am going to confirm it though.

Larry

 

[Bill Adlhoch]

if a receiver ONLY had DPL2 why is that a bad thing?

why would you ever choose DLP1 over DLP2?

 

[George Phillips]

if a receiver ONLY had DPL2 why is that a bad thing?

why would you ever choose DLP1 over DLP2?

I would think DPL1 would be the decoding to use if you were watching an older movie that was mixed for it. Like I said earlier in the thread, DPL2 might sound more impressive, but it's definitely not the "right" audio experience for a movie mixed for matrixed surround. If you want to watch the movie the way it was meant to be watched, you need to be able to do DPL1 decoding.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

oh, btw Bob, just in case some get confused, there is no such thing as
DTS ES, DD EX. Again, another ploy to totally confound the general public, but it seems it gets the best of all of us.

 

[joe logston]

the new yamaha dsp-az1 haves 200w into each 6 channels.& 65w into the 2 effects channels
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/av/index.html

 

[GregoriusM]

The Denon 3803 should say "2 optical audio outputs" as per their website.

Nice job on the chart!

... Greg

 

[Bill Adlhoch]

joe

the model you reference is an AMP, not a receiver

 

[Tom-DC]

Great List - But no NAD??

 

[Keith Mickunas]

Bob, on the audio outputs in your chart, do the number of pre-outs apply to things like tape outputs and such? The reason I ask is that on the Yamaha receivers your numbers seem higher than just the pre-outs available for some of the channels plus the sub outs.

 

[Bob McElfresh]

The reason I ask is that on the Yamaha receivers your numbers seem higher than just the pre-outs available for some of the channels plus the sub outs

Good question. I'm afraid the numbers came straight from the Sound and Vision article. They dont do a great job of explaining how they counted the pre-outs. For all I know, the headphone jack could count.

 

[Donnie Eldridge]

I just stumbled across this at Circuit City after reading these last couple of post. It appears that the Sherwood SHE RD6108 has Prologic II, but does not have Prologic I.

 

[jerry davis]

I have the Yamaha RX-V620, which is the previous model to the 630 in your list. The 620 has 100 watts output and the newer 630 has 75 watts. I am suprised that Yamaha has dowgraded there output on these newer models, but I checked my Yamaha catalog and your list is correct.

 

[David G Greene]

I own the Sherwood SHE RD6108. It has Prologic I, & Prologic II.