Lookign to upgrade my Speakers and SubWoofer.. Please Help! (1 Viewer)

[Evan M.]

No offence taken Wayne. I agree with your sentiments, as you can see from my first post in this thread where I suggested the same system you did. I was just offering options. As Far as I know the Studio 20 plus 470 is not 1400$ but I may be wrong. Plus he can get version 2's if they can be found.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Typical salesman bullshit. Anybody who knows anything about speakers knows that these two have different sound characteristics, and what appeals to him might not appeal to you. In other words, he knows he's dishing bullshit. You should know it, too.

That said, B&W and Paradigm both make fine speakers, and I'd recommend you listen to them. They have distinct sounds that can be generalized into larger groupings of speakers (say "the English sound" vs. "the Canadian sound"), and will help you narrow your search to the perfect speaker for your ears.

Listen to the advice of people who know, but then let your ears make the final decision. Despite your stated preference, at your price point, you may wish to consider those inexpensive, internet-based brands: Rocket, Swans (not sure if they've maintained quality under new ownership), Axiom, etc. You can try 'em out in your home, though you'll most likely be on the hook for return shipping costs if you don't like 'em. Still, your room is crucially important to your sound, and you'll never know for sure about a particular speaker until you get it in there. And if my experience is any indication, the listening rooms at most audio dealers are crap... except for this one that sells speakers I can't afford!

Fortunately, there are a plethora of fine speakers in the sub-$1000 range today (for a pair of mains), enough to suit most tastes and needs. And since speakers are a long-term investment (unlike electronics), and will have arguably the largest effect on the quality and character of your system's sound, you shouldn't buy on a whim or some faceless dude's online recommendation.

FWIW, I'd buy your speakers bit by bit. Get the killer mains today, and run phantom mode or use your current center speaker. Wait till you have disposable cash to upgrade to that matching center and surrounds. What may be "just good enough" today might turn out to be "why'd I buy this half-assed, compromised speaker" tomorrow. Find the price-range you're comfortable with (even if you can only afford to purchase the whole setup over the course of a year), make a list, and start auditioning!

 

[WayneO]

Hey Evan,
Just an FYI: At both Paradigm dealers near me 20's retail for $800 and the CC-470 for $600.

The advice of the slowly putting together a system is great, but that ignores the fact the some people find the "lower" lines, such as Monitors for example, a great speaker in the same way someone may think the Studio line is. Your paying twice the cost, but is it twice the performance and is it worth it to you? That is the question Eddy will have to decide.

 

[Michael__M]

You need to listen to these guys. These are the same people (like myself) that started out buying equipment that was "good enough" at the start. Over the years we find ourselves upgrading over and over again. In the end, we have spent more than enough money to buy some of the best equipment on the market. Take your time and buy equipment that you can be proud of and will last you for years. If not, you will end up with a bunch of equipment that you will outgrow and have to throw away (re: Infinity Satellites in a vaulted room).

I would also pay attention to the several posts that remind you that everyone has different tastes in speakers. We can all list several brands that have good reputations but you have to hear them to decide.

Quit posting and start auditioning. Then let us know what you think so we can tell you that you are wrong.

 

[WayneO]

I think that about everything I buy, it never turns out that way, tastes and perceptions change over time and upgradeitis is as curable as a common cold. Fortunately, it's our budget and lifestyles that really become the ceiling.

 

[Justin_D]

They have the Velodyne CHT-12 @ Circuit City for $499.99

Thats under the budget, right?

 

[Evan M.]

Wayne, Thanks for the update. I knew the 20's were 800 but for some reason I thought the 470 was closer to 400$-450$. My bad. I wonder if any v.2's would be stiill around to be gobbled up? At any rate I do agree with you in that a lot of speaker can be had for less money if you go to a "lower" model in the line. I think those monitor 5's may be some of the best bang for the buck "bookshelves" out there right now. I just am not a fan of the cc370 so I tend to recommend moving up to the studio line if the funds are there or close to being there. Especially if the system will be used for mainly HT.

 

[WayneO]

I've actually been looking at some Studio 100's v.2 myself, I don't care for the v.3's as much. My store has a pair of 6mo. old used for $1075 out the door and it's getting tempting. Only thing is I have to put a non-refundable deposit down and can't have them until they sell a new boxed pair. Another store has two pair of new v.2 60's for $1100, but I can't find a new center to hear. I'm pretty happy with the CC-370 myself and demoed it with the 100's, not that bad IMO, but I know I'll seek out a used CC-Studio and would further my costs. And then I'll need a better amp to get the most from them........it never stops...........

 

[EddyObregon]

OK I live in a townhouse. The room is approximately 12 foot wide by 15 feet .. My roof is approximately 11-12 feet.. My family room has 2 sliding glass doors and i have tiles throughout. My sitting area from the speakers are about 8-10 feet. now i have 2 sofas in there with a middle table. I also have a center rug. Now what i mean is sometimes on direct tv i will put a movie and i put it up about 70 percent. which is about 25 decibals away from max and sometimes the loud sounds sound a tad to bright with hardly any fullness sometimes i feel the need to lower it since it just does not sound natural it sounds loud and bright. Now the local sound component store are mostly distributors and what they have to audition is the mini monitors and the studio series . the guy told me that he does not have the monitor 3 or 5 for auditioning. I can order it from him but he diesnt have them for auditioning. he also has the B&W 303 but not the 601.. When I told him about the difference between the monitor 3 and the mini's and he said that the 3's sound more full and go lower but that alot of people dont buy them since they look awkward on stands since there a tad big.. He said that since they are mostly distributors that they dotn have every model available for auditioning. They have more of the high end models available. When i asked him about hearing the paradigm sub he said he ad a pdr 12 to listen to. I had told him that I want somethingg similar to the hsu vtf-2. He then told me that the ps1000 is probaly the closest match to it. Any advise guys on what I have explained to you guys here. My receiver i beleive does 70-75 watts per channel but i know that it probably doesnt rate that far.

 

[John S]

Do a search.. You can get Velodyne CHT-15's for that....
The Velo is still my choice for best under $500 subs.

I am not a big fan of the CHT-12 myself though.

 

[EddyObregon]

any else how does the paradigm pdr 12 or ps 1000 sound since i am lookign to get paradigm monitor speakers or B&W. Also if i buy paradigm monitor speakers is it wise to match it with the paradigm sub or can i go with a hsu. HAs anyoen heard the paradigm pdr 12 or ps 1000..

 

[Evan M.]

Eddy, By the sounds of it you have a pretty decent sized room. Actually the room isn't the big part, the high ceilings is the big part......I assume when you say roof, you mean ceiling. Turning up your receiver at that level will not make your speakers clip....at least I don't think. It is probably an issue with your speakers and not the receiver. Those older Denon models tend to be pretty relaxed so I can't imagine them causing high/bright tones at higher levels. It probably would be beneficial to add more power but hell, when isn't it beneficial to add more power LOL . I do not know much about B&W but I know some about Paradigm. Personaly I would skip over the Monitor 3's and go to the 5's. The 3's lack a lot in the mid range I though while the 5's and 7's (tower version) have the mid and bass covered pretty well. If he thinks the 3's look awkward on a stand...you should see the 5's!! The pdr 12 is a good sub as is the ps1000. The 1000 is sealed and is decent for both movies and music but I think you could do better for the money, such as that hsu or an "entry level" svs.

Wayne, yeah I know what you mean about upgrading....it can be dangerous!! Thos 60's and 100's are VERY sweet!! Tough call on that one. It is hard to turn down brand new speakers in the box though. Don't get me wrong, the 370 is a great center for the money. I just did not find a big difference between the 270 and 370, and I heard a HUGE difference between the 370 and 470. I wonder why Paradigm does not put out another center in the Monitor line? They have 3 in the Performance line, two in the Studio line and Signature line. I think they should throw in a 370 1/2 that adds a mid range driver .

 

[EddyObregon]

so basically when i turn up the volume of my receiver my speakers sound thin, bright and they fatigue my ears after awhile. I think its more of a issue with my infinity. Basically no mids just highs. I have the infinty hts 20 which are small to medium sattelite with a 12 inch sub which sucks

 

[TimMc]

Wayne, Wayne -

Come on, man - you're going to break the code here. We've all gone through upgrade-itis, and I'm sure that this is just the first/next round of that disease for Eddy. Anyone who's got Paradigms (or P-digm lust) is naturally going to recommend Studios - 'cause some of us still have Studio lust, so we just want to start Eddy with Studios now so he can upgrade to Signatures even sooner and then some of us can buy his Studio 40s/whatevers at a reasonable discounted/used price!

Slightly more seriously, you can get a 470 for ~$460, 40s (v3) for around $850, which to me is right around his 1300 target. Not retail, I'll admit, but Audiogon, etc. do offer opportunities. Yeah, yeah - no sub (yet), but the hint on phantom center would leave $$$ for SVS or HSU. Skimp on the surrounds now (there's usually little content there - you can get away with much less there until you just have to have more in back). Get the best mains you can.

P-digm Monitors are quite fine. And affordable - I know. So are Axioms (outrageous sound for the $$$). Can't comment on Rockets personally but that seems to hold there, too. They'd all keep you in the budget now, but the downside is that you'll still have room to "upgrade" to Studios or whatever and that means that the rest of us will just have to wait that much longer for the crumbs from your next upgrade...

 

[EddyObregon]

see but im the type of guy that does not want the best there is out there i just want somethign very good. My brotherin law has a yamaha receiver with the old B*W 302's and you know what I really like the soundof those speakers. To be honest with you I just want something comparable. I am looking for crisp, clear and smooth sound.. I audiotined at my local tweeter monitor audios and they retaled for 350 a piece just a tad to expensive for me but damn they sounded crystal clear... I have also listened to the 602's from B&W and I think they sound great. How do the 602's or 603 from B&W compare to the mini monitors or the monitors 3. I will not buy the monitors 5 since they are to big for my taste. By the way guys, thanks for all your advise. You have all helped me out tremendously! I know I caqn be hard headed but I do not want to make a mistake and waste my money on speakers that I weill regret later. My wife wont let me buy speakers for like 7 years after this.

 

[WayneO]

Well hell, if you like the B&W's go get them! I've never gave the Paradigm 3's a listen, so I can't comment. And just cause we got into a discussion about them doesn't mean we think they ARE the speaker to get. If your just trying to keep it simple, listen to speakers at your local stores and pick a winner. I still say order the Hsu STF-2 sub, you aren't gonna get a store bought sub near its performance at that cost and it'll take care of all the low end your bookshelfs can't.

 

[EddyObregon]

ok thanks... My local salesman told me that if i get paradigm speakers that I should match it up with the same brand sub for it can all sound in synch. So you think that the hsu sub will sound better with the paradigms or B&W than a paradigm sub matched up with the paradigms... My friend has a hsu vtf-2 and for some sort of reason it sounds way to boomy. I like clean base and pwerful but not boomy all the time. It might not be calibrated properly perahaps. Guys I also have a question about the hsu sub. Under crossover theres a switch that says in or out. What is the best setting to set it at. Salesman told me to put the receiver setting for the speakers to small and set the crossover on the hsu to max whih is like 90 or 100. that way the sub picks up all the base that the speaker is missign but my question is whats the difference between crossover in or out. what shoudl i set it at..

 

[EddyObregon]

also i read some reviews where the monitors 3 need alot of power to reach there potential... will my denom 1800 that does 75 watts per channel be enough for my 14x12 rooms

 

[WayneO]

Either bad positioning or setup because I don't know anyone that ever called a Hsu "boomy". And that salesman is full of it saying a "matching" sub is necessary to blend or be "in sync", that's funny. A sub driver will have different sound characteristics than of the drivers in a speaker, unless you know of a speaker driver used in a sub? It has more to do with listener preferences than anything else. It's all about placement, crossover and calibration. And yes sometimes that doesn't do it, but I'd bet 95% of the time it does. He's right about the crossover and "small" speaker setting though. If you "enable" the crossover in a receiver, usually by selecting the "small" speaker size you could just leave the crossover as high as it goes and the receiver will only send the sub signals less than the crossover point(80hz is usually standard and recommended). Also note that "small" means the bass(

 

[Evan M.]

Your sub does NOT have to match your mains. He is trying to make an extra buck......or he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Wayne hit the nail on the head about the hsu sounding boomy.
Monitor speakers are fairly efficient so they do not NEED a ton of power. However more power is always a good thing (within reason of course). I wouldn't stress out too much about the power thing.