Listening to Music with Sub

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Peter_James, Feb 5, 2003.

  1. Peter_James

    Peter_James Stunt Coordinator

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    I have been listening to music with my 2 front speakers and a sub lately. The reason is that I set my speakers to small for HT and the sub now plays when I listen to 2 channel music. To make this not happen, every-time I want to hear music, I would have to reset my fronts to Large. Since this is a pain to do EVERYTIME, I end up just listening with the sub. Does anyone else do this? My front speakers are towers, and sound nice, but I just cant be bothered to change everytime. Any input on this subject?

    P.J.
     
  2. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    If you have the sub positioned correctly and "dialed-in" it should actually enhance the listening experience! If you have the ability to turn the sub down a few clicks from the Audio/video receiver (subwoofer channel) this certainly would help. What is your setup?[​IMG]
     
  3. Kyle P

    Kyle P Extra

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    You could try to leave your towers set as large. This is what I do and I like the results for music and movies. I also leave my sub crossover set to 50hz and leave the volume down on the sub. This way the sub pretty much dissapears while i play music.
    Oh yes JBL s310s and PB12
     
  4. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Why are you compelled to listen without the sub?
     
  5. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    This will fix everything!
    [​IMG]
     
  6. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    Peter,

    Depending on your receiver you may beable to listen to your mains without a sub and send them a full range signal with NO digital processing involved. Sometimes its called source-direct or analog bypass.

    Can you post your receiver model? I can't stand listening to music with a sub as well.
     
  7. Peter_James

    Peter_James Stunt Coordinator

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    I am using a Pioneer D609S. I think that the music sounds nicer using the towers...plenty of low end. For movies, I have done a comparison and I like it better when all speakers are set to small. It gives the sub more to do, and I like the results. With music, it makes it sound not as "real" i guess would be the best I could say. My receiver will not change automatically when I switch off Dolby for 2 CH. stereo. I don't think that it is a problem with my sub, because even if I had a larger sub (like the SVS), I think that I would feel the same way. When in 2 CH. set to large, my mains get a workout...when set to small the sub gets a workout, but my mains don't throw air out of the ports etc. My sub is made by a company called Audio Design Concepts (ADC), and is a 10" down firing w/ 150watts. Its not that it is not powerful enough, just doesn't seem like the music was meant to play that way. Maybe it's my receiver thats causing me not to like it, not sure.

    BTW-My mains are also ADC. 'Theater Grand' Models with 8" passive woofers in them.

    P.J.
     
  8. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    I can't stand listening to music with a sub as well.
    [/quote]

    If your system is set up correctly..the sub is (almost) transparent and just fills in the lower octaves that even full range speakers can't produce. On James Taylor's latest CD (actually SACD) there is information below 20Hz that my 802's don't produce well. With the sub coming into the scene at 40Hz and below the whole bottom end opens up. It's like listening to a whole new song.:b
     
  9. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    Mike,

    I understand that is current logic. I just haven't heard a sub blend well in any system. Now if I could cross my sub at 40 Hz maybe that would be better, but at 80 hz it is very easy to localize. It's hard enough to integrate the 12" woofers and the electrostatic panel in my speakers crossed at 180 hz, adding a subwoofer and expecting it to keep up is very close to impossible.

    Peter, look for some kind of "direct" mode. I'm not familiar with your receiver though. [​IMG]
     
  10. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    [It's hard enough to integrate the 12" woofers and the electrostatic panel in my speakers crossed at 180 hz]

    John..sounds like you have some nice speakers! What are they? The reason I ask is I have been eyeing some Martin Logan.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    mmmmm....prodigy.[​IMG]

    They are reQuests. They latest generation of the quest series. Discontinued however. The odessey's are the current replacement for the request line I believe.

    Mike if you would like to discuss Logans PM me or maybe start another topic. I won't sugar coat them and will give you all their flaws (all of which are overcome with good amplification and room). But man...when setup right they are simply mind boggling.

    I wish we could come up with a solution for Peter other than "buy a different receiver with analog bypass"
     
  12. CurtisC

    CurtisC Second Unit

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    I have klipsch rf7's with rsw 15 sub.I find I prefer this setup over my previus 2ch,you hear and feel it.It really fills in the lowest notes on bass,or impact on drums.I think the source signal the sub gets is also very critical,bad source bad sound,better source better sound.
     
  13. Rick_FL

    Rick_FL Stunt Coordinator

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    mike sloan: don't hug to hard, hehe. I see your sony 755v sitting there. new toys? [​IMG]

    btw, i always listen to my music with a subwoofer. the low frequencies just blend right in
     
  14. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Rick_FL,

    Man you got good eyes...how could you tell that was the Sony SACD player? I actually wound up trading it (+ a few bucks) for the Pioneer Elite 45A...don't know if I made a good decision..probably should have waited for the Yamaha 2300!
    Yes, I have become bass crazy...and unless things are coming unglued, I am not satisfied! Lately I have become obsessed with SACD and DVD-A format. My ICBM is supposed to arrive tomorrow..now I have to buy cables...uuuugh!
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Jose G

    Jose G Supporting Actor

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    Peter,
    Are you sure your receiver doesn't have some way to memorize the settings after initial set up? For example, set up in dolby with speakers small+sub on, and in stereo mode sub off+mains large. Did you check the manual? A friend told me set up on the 509S was a pain and I'm pretty sure he said the 509S does this...but I could be wrong. Now where's that guys #?
     
  16. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    I also listen to my music with a sub, despite having capable towers. I'm kind of lucky however, in that my odd shaped room actually gives a pretty decent bass response with no EQ'ing.
     
  17. Adam.Gonsman

    Adam.Gonsman Stunt Coordinator

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    A couple things to keep in mind...

    Many like myself are left choosing between a sub that is musically accurate and one that has a great deal of impact for theater since many of us can't afford some of those nice upper end Rel's. This could go a long way to explain part of the divide in this thread between those that favor music with the sub and those that favor music without.

    As for blending betweem the sub and towers, it should definately be possible to get the sub dialed in to compliment the towers. But whether you really need the sub for music depends largely on what type of music you listen to. That being said, most modern recordings will benifit from the sub being there. My own towers are rated to respond down to 27hz and they do. But hardly at all. They definately need backup in the lower end as do nearly all the but top end passive towers.

    The last thing to keep in mind, is that for theater, you can never have enough bass. As my dealer quoted to me one time, "When Godzilla is coming down the street and cars are bouncing a foot off the ground, your couch better be doing the same thing or you need another sub." This is very not true for music. You can very easily have too much bass. This conflict is where many of us run into another problem. We have our subs all tweaked out to give us that chest pounding bass for theater and then they're turned up way to high for the music to sound natural.

    At current, I've settled on running a rather small musical sub (a Mirage BPS-150i) inline with my mains. It bascially yeilds the effect of having powered towers. I get full range for music and a perfect blend between the sub and mains. I keep it dialed for music so the bass isn't overwhelming. My receiver is set to treat my mains as large and for theater sends LFE to both the mains and another chest pounding but horribly inaccurate sub.

    Like the rest of you, I don't really have a super solution for Peter that doesn't involve buying some new stuff. But with a little work and tweaking, it should be possible to blend the sub pretty good to the towers. If it's blended right, it really should help out with the music even if it's not a real musically accurate sub. Just be aware that if it sounds good for music, it might sound kind of wussy compared to what you're used to for theater. Many receivers allow you to adjust the volume of the sub out from the remote. This should make it relatively easy to bump up the volume a little on the sub for theater and back down for music.
     
  18. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Adam.Gonsman:

    That sums it up perfectly! I think the best fix would be the receiver. Denon has models with "Personal Memory Plus" that allows you to put in "memory" a multitude of settings and levels for any mode you are in. I have got this rig to sound SWEET for both music and movies!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Jose G

    Jose G Supporting Actor

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    Dual VTF-3's! Sweeeet! Man, I need to move into a house.

    By the way, sorry to interupt the thread for this one, but, how do you guys get a pic on the forum?

    And Rick, how did you see Mike's sony 755v in that pic?
     
  20. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Jose G:

    just click on the IMG tab above and paste the address to the picture in the space provided. It usually puts the first (http://) in for you so make sure you don't duplicate it when you paste. If you are taking an image off the web..just right click and "copy" address. If you want your own pics..you got to start up a web page and link from there with the address. The example above of the VTF-3's is from my AOL web page where this address for the pic came from (http://members.aol.com/solomon57/ima...all%20vtf3.jpg)
     

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