Line Array Speakers

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve Estabrooks, Aug 28, 2002.

  1. Steve Estabrooks

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    I would like to build a set of home theater speakers. The line array design looks intriguing. Has anyone built a set of these? If so how do they sound? Were they built from a kit?

    Also I have heard they are very directional. Any comments would be appreciated
     
  2. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Steve,

    Hank has built a pair of GR Research Alphas which are Danny Richie's personal pair and Hank has had an opportunity to hear them. I'm also building 3 pair of them for a local customer but it will be a while before I have a chance to actually have a listen.

    Is there a specific kit you are considering?

    Brian
     
  3. Brian, One of these days I hope to build the Alpha's for my music room, but it would be a tad rough to get those boxes of yours shipped from GA to CA!!!
     
  4. Steve Estabrooks

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    Brian,
    I don't know of many sources for these kits. Are there many kits out there?

    Steve
     
  5. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Tony,
    No problem at all! BIG crates, SLOW truck! [​IMG]
    Brian
     
  6. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Steve,
    I just came to the DIY section to post the same question! [​IMG] I'm considering the Linus array from Selah Audio. Having not heard a non-concert series line array though, I'm a little concerned on how I would like it. Getting a matching center for HT or DVD-Audio use would be difficult (I think?) unless I built 3 which would make placement in my room difficult. How do you plan on using them Steve?
    Dan
     
  7. Brian...but how much is the shipping of those?
    How much are the cabinets with a finish like your mahogany dyed AV1s? (I am just look out for my interests in the years to come. I will either be getting a line array or some Maggies 1.6 or 3.6. It all depends on what I can afford..or save up!...and have room for [​IMG])
     
  8. The one problem with a line array for HT is that you will not have a line array for a center. A line array decays at 3db per doubling of distance away from the speakers while a point source is 6db.
     
  9. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    I think it was guesstimated that shipping would be around $400. Email me if you really want a price on those cabinets. The dye will definitely add a few hundred bucks to the total though. I have a feeling you'll want to do them yourself though! [​IMG]
     
  10. Brian, no doubt I want to do it myself, but it isn't always an option if you know what I mean.
    $400 shipping! not really suprising though [​IMG]
    Do take pictures of the completed ones that you are building!!!!! I always could use an image to motivate me[​IMG]
     
  11. Steve Estabrooks

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    Not sure what to do on a center channel. What if you design a scaled down version using the same drivers?
     
  12. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Hmmmm...well, I consider myself a bright guy. Bright enough to know I couldn't design a scaled down version myself. [​IMG] I wonder how much it would cost to have the designers of the original array design a dedicated center? It would probably be cheaper to go front projection with a perforated screen and use the same array across the front. [​IMG]
    I'm anxious for some of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum to chime in here.
     
  13. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    Line arrays and DD/DTS multi-channel surround sound is probably mutually exclusive if a coherent 360deg soundfield is to be maintained. Line arrays work on the basis of massive comb filtering, so much that our brains ignore most of it to extract an averaged frequency response. Putting them behind a preforated screen should in theory dramatically alter it, and I'm betting probably not for the good. Scaled down versions, say only four drivers, aren't long enough to be a line source unless they're small tweeter sized, so not viable as a center or as the major speaker design.

    That said, I'm not a big believer in using CCs if the mains have ~flat phase and limited off axis response, which a line array is capable of if loaded in a 40-60deg conical horn. In a quadraphonic array they can be pretty impressive based on a prosound setup I heard at a trade show last year.

    GM
     
  14. Greg....but how broad is the sweet spot with no center. if you have a 3 person couch, can all three spots accurately image the center speaker?
     
  15. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    I only have stereo 500Hz horns/dual 15"s right now and at 14ft they cover a three wide sofa and a two wide loveseat at 9ft just fine for me and the few others who have watched a movie, so a focussed line array should be killer.

    Remember that a line doesn't fall off as fast over distance as a point source, so you'll be sitting inside a diffuse soundfield unless you're very far away, and even then the pattern should be fairly wide. Also, according to my RTA, I've yet to see much HF energy above ~12kHz, where beaming becomes an issue.

    GM
     
  16. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Danny has said he'd design a center channel using the same drivers as the Alpha if a customer wanted it along with some Alphas but I don't have a clue what he'd charge.

    Greg,

    Now that I'm in Midtown you wanna do the Greasy V (The Varsity) for lunch one day next week?

    Brian
     
  17. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    >Danny has said he'd design a center channel using the same drivers as the Alpha if a customer wanted it along with some Alphas but I don't have a clue what he'd charge.
    ====
    Hmm, if he succeeds in matching performance to a line with a short line or point source, he'll be the first AFAIK. Still, I'd like to see someone succeed.
    ====
    >Greg,

    >Now that I'm in Midtown you wanna do the Greasy V (The Varsity) for lunch one day next week?
    ====
    Sure, let me know. I thought we were going to do it at Chili's awhile back after you got back from Texas, but never heard from you.

    GM
     
  18. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    Well guys, the Alpha's I built and we assembled in my garage sounded very good and Danny has tweaked the crossover and says he has hit his performance goal. I think I'll drive up to hear them at the Texas DIY meet.
    BTW, Jon and Thomas advise that since you can't equal the response of L-R line array mains with a center channel (as Greg points out above), the answer is NO center channel - phantom mode.
    I kept an intriguing discussion going at the HTGuide Mission Possible DIY area: http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/inde...estTimeout=500
    After that thread halted, I continued with: http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/inde...estTimeout=500
    Interesting and intriguing - I want to build!
     
  19. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Greg,

    Things got hectic with the preparations for the move to Midtown and then my wife was sick so I just didn't have time for Chili's before we moved. I'll contact you early next week and set up a day.

    Brian
     
  20. Danny Richie

    Danny Richie Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi guys.

    I am testing a matching center channel for the customer building three pairs of Alpha LS's for his home theater.

    It is a short line source configuration that would technically be considered a point source.

    The main goal is a speaker that has the same tamber qualities (using the same drivers) as the Alphas.

    It has a pair of Neo 8's in a vertical line, in the center, flanked by a pair of CSS woofers on each side (2 ribbons, 4 woofers). The low crossover point will give vary good off axis response in the horizontal plane, but the high frequencies will be limited in height vertically.

    I am guessing this speaker will have about a 3 or 4 foot vertical window at the seated listening distance. meaning the window will be that small that includes full bandwidth (no restricted lows).

    Using a pair of speakers, even line sources, running in phantom will work well only for the person sitting in the center. If you are off to the left or right the center channel info (mostly dialog) will be also. It really needs to project its image from a location that will allow center channel information to appear to come from the speaking actors on the screen, regardless of seating location.
     

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