Lexicon Logic 7: A case for separate prepro?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Arthur S, Jan 21, 2002.

  1. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not too long ago Lexicon's Logic 7 was a highly touted feature. AFAIK, no receiver has this capability for 5.1 sources. In the lengthly thread on receivers vs. separates, I don't think anyone mentioned this. Have the 6.1 and 7.1 modes on receivers (and some software) made Logic 7 a moot point?
     
  2. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 1999
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't believe so, in fact the new HK X20 series receivers do have both Logic 7 cinema and Logic 7 music. Either of these can be applied to 5.1 or 7.1 set-ups depending on the number of speakers that you are using.

    They also let you easily compare DPL2 against Logic 7, which in my opinion L7 wins hands down, others may disagree. Go listen for yourself.

    I'm using my HK 320 as a pre/pro and one of the big reasons is for the Logic 7.

    Phil
     
  3. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Phil, the owners manual for the 8000 says Logic 7 is not available for DD and DTS sources. It appears that HK continues to offer Logic 7 only for 2 channel sources, making it more comparable to DPL II.

    The inability to use the HK version Logic 7 on DD and DTS seems a major downside.
     
  4. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Artie,
    If HK was allowed to implement full blown Logic 7 over 5.1 sources in their HK recievers, then the Lexicon division would probably go out of business [​IMG]
    As of right "now", I would only replace my Onkyo 989 (as prepro and drives rears) with two upgrade options:
    1) Pioneer Elite 49tx receiver (for automatic room equalizer and THX Ultra2 processing)
    2) Lexicon prepro for full Logic 7 and baby multichannel amp (however, as you know, I can barely place my existing one rear center on the window sill several inches behind me...LOL!....and you need two rear centers for Logic 7!).
    Ricky
     
  5. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There was a comparison done by a number of people including some from one of these forums in San Francisco inside Dolby's Demo Home Theater. There they compared Logic 7, DTS-Neo, DPL-II, and Circle Surround.

    Results: L7 didn't win hands down, in fact it was very difficult to tell between DPL-II and L7 on 5.1 digital or analog sources. DPL-II had less artifacts and better steering between channels than L7.
     
  6. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I didn't participate in the tests, but I remember the reports of the results, and you're absolutely correct: DPL2 came out on top, with Logic7 a close second.

    However, I believe the tests were conducted with only 5 speakers (plus a sub), which somewhat curtails what Logic7 is capable of. Of course, a 7-speaker setup wouldn't be a fair comparison either, since DPL2 wasn't designed for that configuration.

    I wouldn't be surprised to find that Dolby is working on a 7-speaker implementation of DPL2 right now. And Lexicon is always working on a new version of Logic7. Definitely a comparison to be revisited in the future. For now, either one is preferable to DPL on 2-channel sources. And Logic7 (in its full implementation) does wonders at extracting additional ambience from 5.1 tracks.

    M.
     
  7. Michael St. Clair

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    6,001
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think Bruce may have mistyped. As I recall, the test material was all 2-channel. It would have to be, because, AFAIK, DPL2 only works with 2-channel.

    M.
     
  9. Michael St. Clair

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    6,001
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  10. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't hold me to it, but I believe there's a newer version of Logic7 in the Lexicon MC-12, which wasn't out when the tests were conducted. For all I know, there's an upgrade available for the MC-1; I just haven't been keeping up.

    I don't think DPL2 has been revised since it first appeared, but someone here may have newer information.

    M.
     
  11. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As I recall they did various sources including Digital DD Stereo and DD Surround sources, NOT just 2 channel analog sources.
     
  13. Michael St. Clair

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    6,001
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  14. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian,

    "Unfortunately, some of the other modes have been dropped, such as Panorama. "

    Only temporarily though. Lexicon has said they will be adding all the missing modes (of the DC-1 et al) to the MC-12 in a later software upgrade.

    Shawn
     
  15. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  16. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK, semantics. I consider 2-channel to be uncompressed PCM or SACD or DVD-A.
    I don't label anything in the lossy DD domain as 2-channel. I call it DD 2.0, or DD Stereo, or DD Surround.
     
  17. Drew Eckhardt

    Drew Eckhardt Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 10, 2001
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    1. Lexicon (processor) Logic 7 operates on 7.1 speaker arrays, can be applied to DTS/AC-3, has _lots_ of adjustments, and can be used as an encoder on AC-3/DTS sources to produce a matrix-encoded recording decodes much closer to the original than the corresponding Dolby Surround track.

    Any/all of those have been missing from other implementations.

    Try the real thing; you'll probably like it :)

    2. As far as upgradeability: The DC-1 is 5 or 6 years old. While a bit newer, the DC-2/MC-1 run the same software, presumably share the digital side of things, and are effectively "as old". A) What other processor that age supports DTS, DTS-ES matrix, and Dolby Digital THX-EX (although Logic-7 is better)? B) If the $300 (firmware) - $500 (board - DC-1 AC-3 to DTS upgrade) upgrades continued, satisfied current Lexicon owners would have less motivation to buy a $4 (let's assume the MC-12 lite is priced comparably to other processors in the same ball park)-9K processor. C) Gadgetheads like new toys, even if the improvement is marginal (I'm guilty here). With many the people willing to spend money having already upgraded, I wonder how ecomically viable upgrades on the old processors are (I'd assume "not")?

    Then there's the trade-in program....
     
  18. Zbigniew

    Zbigniew Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2000
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And then there are floks like me, who thankfully to trade-in program were able to get The Real Thing (Logic-7) without mortgaging home.

    In my case instead of waiting for you know what, I am happy owner of used, traded in MC-1 for whooping $2250. Since I did not needed component video (unit is used as sound processor only), it was precisely what I was looking for.

    Logic 7 used no a 6 speaker array with phantom center does miracles to my huge living room.....

    And yes, a difference between logi7, Music 7/Music surround or Panorama and DPL, Party or 2 channel is very significant. Switching between 2 chan and Logic 7 is like listening to a jazz concert just outside the club through open doors and walking right into the dance floor.

    For me this used MC-1 is here for long time (like few years).

    _zjt
     

Share This Page