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Dave Upton

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Well, in my book, "lossless" just means no perceptual coding has been applied, such as mp3. ALAC and FLAC are lossless, but if they're low resolution, then a high resolution "lossy" file/stream will still be better. Plus, there are widely varying qualities of lossy compression.
Just because tidal and Qobuz are both lossless, the source of said lossless varies. It appears Qobuz has a lot of albums that come from different sources.
 

John Dirk

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Just because tidal and Qobuz are both lossless, the source of said lossless varies. It appears Qobuz has a lot of albums that come from different sources.

Makes sense. I guess I just assumed all of the major services used the same source material.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Just because tidal and Qobuz are both lossless, the source of said lossless varies. It appears Qobuz has a lot of albums that come from different sources.
Sounds like the same kind of issue w/ all the various physical releases/reissues of music, including those SHM-CDs I was coming across... except at diff level/scale/scope -- I suppose this is more vertical and monolithic instead...

Q: does the Anthem AVM-60 (as well as MRX-720) come w/ built-in native support for these lossless streaming music platforms, etc? Just have an internet connection (preferably just via wifi), and I'm all set to subscribe and stream?

I'm totally new to this way of "consuming" music. Always stuck w/ physical media before, except on portables (where I mainly just listen to music I ripped myself as I didn't generally buy or subscribe to "digitals")... Never even tried Bluetooth on my systems at all (partly because I didn't feel like bothering w/ the usually needed add-ons just to try another lossy approach) -- only finally started using BT for wireless headphones for mobile usage this past year or so in part because Apple kinda forced it on me... Also hadn't tried HD radio whether at home or in the car...

Had casually considered getting into DSD file purchases before since (reasonably affordable) SACDs aren't quite that easy to come by, but never got anywhere w/ that...

_Man_
 
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JohnRice

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Had casually considered getting into DSD file purchases before since (reasonably affordable) SACDs aren't quite that easy to come by, but never got anywhere w/ that...

_Man_
I don't know that there's any true benefit to DSD over traditional 96/24 and 192/24 high res audio. I've never bought any DSD because playback is more complicated, and my current DAC doesn't to DSD. I believe some DACs don't decode it natively anyway.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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I don't know that there's any true benefit to DSD over traditional 96/24 and 192/24 high res audio. I've never bought any DSD because playback is more complicated, and my current DAC doesn't to DSD. I believe some DACs don't decode it natively anyway.
I suppose I could go for those other options as well, but wasn't aware there's a market for that instead of DSD files.

Yeah, DSD seems tricky even if the benefits (over "traditional" hirez) are real and meaningful. Basically needs the entire audio chain (starting w/ the original digital master itself) to be native DSD w/ very little/limited, if any, possible adjustments throughout until the final analog converted output stage fed to the (pre)amps.

I probably wouldn't bother to consider trying DSD files at all if not for its ties to SACD (and SACD essentially being virtually all that's left of the hirez disc format war, etc)... so yeah, I'd strongly prefer my digital audio chain to have good native DSD support, especially if I'm paying for premium gear -- something I haven't doublechecked yet w/ the Anthem prepro/AVR offerings. Not sure I'd consider it must-have, but it's certainly one of a small handful of "features" I'd want, if possible...

There also seems to be a big DSD following in the headfi world. That's the other reason I considered trying DSD files at all...

_Man_
 

JohnRice

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DSD is experiencing a resurrection lately. I'd just beware that anything that accepts a DSD signal isn't internally converting it to PCM, if you really want pure DSD.
 

Dave Upton

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I suppose I could go for those other options as well, but wasn't aware there's a market for that instead of DSD files.

Yeah, DSD seems tricky even if the benefits (over "traditional" hirez) are real and meaningful. Basically needs the entire audio chain (starting w/ the original digital master itself) to be native DSD w/ very little/limited, if any, possible adjustments throughout until the final analog converted output stage fed to the (pre)amps.

I probably wouldn't bother to consider trying DSD files at all if not for its ties to SACD (and SACD essentially being virtually all that's left of the hirez disc format war, etc)... so yeah, I'd strongly prefer my digital audio chain to have good native DSD support, especially if I'm paying for premium gear -- something I haven't doublechecked yet w/ the Anthem prepro/AVR offerings. Not sure I'd consider it must-have, but it's certainly one of a small handful of "features" I'd want, if possible...

There also seems to be a big DSD following in the headfi world. That's the other reason I considered trying DSD files at all...

_Man_
DSD is really not appreciably superior to FLAC, no matter how much buzz it gets in the audiophile world. As @JohnRice mentioned, you also need a gear chain that supports it end to end which is not worth the trouble.

None of the Paradigm/Anthem products support any streaming service natively other than Spotify. I would recommend using a HTPC (Intel NUC is my favorite) or building a raspberry pi based streaming box in any case, as it's sonically superior. You can read a bit about how I do this using Roon in my office stereo setup article here: https://www.hometheaterforum.com/bu...2-channel-setup-in-my-home-office-using-roon/
 
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ManW_TheUncool

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I don't care for multichannel music myself. I have a bunch of SACDs, but always listen to them in 2 channel. Two Mahler Symphonies, the 2nd and 8th, are ready made for surround though, since they are actually supposed to be performed that way.
Maybe this belongs in a new thread in the music section, but... what would you recommend for high quality recordings of excellent performances of those 2 Mahler symphonies, especially the 2nd symphony?

I'm unfamiliar w/ them (and basically rather new to Mahler in general).

A couple quick googles seem to find Simon Rattle's recordings on EMI (earlier/first for Mahler 2 and later w/ BPO for others) to be good choices on regular CD. A couple reviews, especially on Gramophone, seems to rave most about Vladimir Jurowski's live recording of the 2nd w/ LPO (from around same time as Rattle's later BPO ones) though a couple others seem to find Jurowski rather/too idiosyncratic, etc... though that also seems available on a Japanese import SACD. Neither CD is readily available, except on the used market it seems -- well, the Jurowski SACD can be had new as Japanese import for what one can typically expect such I guess (and I'm considering one eBay offer for ~$43+tax shipped).

On the SACD front, I also spotted Daniele Gatti's more recent recording w/ RCO that's readily available at more regular prices, but couldn't find any critic reviews -- might've gone for an earlier Mariss Jansons's recording w/ RCO (on SACD), except that doesn't seem available (or was it ever made?) unlike his others of Mahler.

I just now went ahead and bought a "like new" CD of Rattle's earlier Mahler 2 off eBay for now... figuring I may end up wanting multiple versions anyway -- will probably also get his later Mahler 5 and 8 w/ BPO on EMI. I'm aware a lot of people love Bernstein and Barbirolli (and maybe also Karajan amongst others) for Mahler -- and Gramophone also raves about Kubelik as far as complete cycle FWTW. But seems like Rattle's EMI recordings make pretty solid, non-controversial starting points at least for 2, 5 and 8, especially if more modern recordings are desired (though the CDs aren't hirez).

Anyone else w/ solid recommendations for these symphonies (on any lossless format)?

_Man_
 
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JohnRice

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Oh, I can talk about Mahler recordings. I'm really not crazy, but I think counted 14 either complete or mostly complete series in my collection.

I'll come back when I have more time.

My general opinion is to lean toward more aggressive/modern conductors and recordings. Mahler requires the best technology to reproduce. Tilson Thomas, Slatkin has a couple great ones, Ben Zander's series. Like I said, I'll come back.

I have the entire Rattle set, and several others....

If I was to recommend the best overall complete series, it would be Tilson Thomas and the SFO. Others might have better high points, but it's the best overall.

I'm also a big fan of Zander's, but there's something wrong with his 2nd, which he did years later after Telarc went belly up.
 
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JohnRice

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DSD is really not appreciably superior to FLAC, no matter how much buzz it gets in the audiophile world. As @JohnRice mentioned, you also need a gear chain that supports it end to end which is not worth the trouble.
My main interest in DSD is the continued ability to play back my SACDs, or ripped files of them, the best I can.
 

Dave Upton

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My main interest in DSD is the continued ability to play back my SACDs, or ripped files of them, the best I can.
I have a full DSD chain here - so I do appreciate the capability, but I find myself listening to the Qobuz version of the same album 90% of the time anyway these days.
 

bujaki

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Maybe we should have a thread dedicated to Mahler. Anyway, I've experienced both the 2nd and the 8th live. Incredible, particularly the 8th, which is a once-in-a-lifetime occasion, since it's so expensive to produce.
 
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JohnRice

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I do like the Tilson Thomas set. FWIW, I am NOT a fan of historical recordings. I want to be placed in the auditorium with the orchestra, and that requires a more modern recording. There have always been great conductors and there always will be. Nobody from the past is absolutely superior to more current/recent conductors. With composers like Mahler in particular, I tend to believe that interpretations evolve and often move more to what the music is meant to be. Also, as recording technology has improved, there is less or no need to "dial it down" in order to fit it into limited dynamics.

Also, take Beethoven as an example. There are supposedly "accurate" small scale interpretations which are technically more in line to performances of Beethoven's time, but I firmly believe that in Beethoven's case in particular, orchestras were simply smaller. He would have been performed with 80-100 member orchestras, if they had existed in his time, but they didn't. Sure, Beethoven is fine with 25, as originally performed, but his bigger stuff in particular evolves to what it can be with 80-100. Not technically "accurate" but still ideal.
 

JohnRice

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BTW, my nerves are a little frazzled lately. It seems that everywhere I turn I step on a live wire, so I think I'll take a break for a while.

All the Tilson Thomas Mahlers are available on HDTracks and they have a sale going on this weekend. I can post the code, which I don't have at hand, if anyone wants it.
 
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JohnRice

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Back to "Show-off" music. Tool's latest "Fear Inoculum" is completely blowing my mind. Talk about "show-off" music. Wanna test the bass and percussive ability of your system, not to mention imaging? Holy Smokes! @Dave Upton should give this a spin. They take some effort or maybe patience, because they really take their time. I've just always been a lover of Prog Rock, and this type of Prog Metal really does it for me.

 

John Dirk

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Interesting and definitely a great test track. Love the percussion!

Rock at Your Own Risk!

 

Type A

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So who thinks I should upgrade? Paradigm S2 V.2, C3 V.3 and S1 V.3 driven with a XPA5 gen 1. With a military discount and free shipping a gen 3 would be $1439. I like that I could expand it to seven channel and also feed my S1 V.3 backs (currently driven with a UPA-700). That would leave me moving the XPA5 gen 1 to atmos channels only (4 Paradigm Stylus 270) and selling off the UPA 700...

With all Dave's talk of dampening Im really wondering if its worth the upgrade for components I never thought I would need to upgrade. Id like Parasound but not the prices. Emotiva prices do make it possible, so opinions??
 

JohnRice

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So who thinks I should upgrade? Paradigm S2 V.2, C3 V.3 and S1 V.3 driven with a XPA5 gen 1. With a military discount and free shipping a gen 3 would be $1439. I like that I could expand it to seven channel and also feed my S1 V.3 backs (currently driven with a UPA-700). That would leave me moving the XPA5 gen 1 to atmos channels only (4 Paradigm Stylus 270) and selling off the UPA 700...

With all Dave's talk of dampening Im really wondering if its worth the upgrade for components I never thought I would need to upgrade. Id like Parasound but not the prices. Emotiva prices do make it possible, so opinions??
I just know that the XPA-DR2 I got is a significant improvement from the Gen 1 XPA-2 it replaced. The DR2 is technically a Gen 3 and I wonder if the amp modules in it are actually the same as in the regular XPA Gen 3 amps. It just has two modules running in differential for each channel instead of one in the regular line. I'm seriously considering getting an XPA-DR1 for the center, and possibly even replacing the other Gen 1 XPA-5 with a Gen 3 (some day). I'm telling you though, the DR2 is a significantly better amp than the Gen 1. I suspect the same holds for the Gen 3 models.
 

John Dirk

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Let me simplify this for you. If you can afford it and don't have a wife threatening divorce "if you continue buying all of this HT stuff" then you should upgrade. Life is too short for unnecessary compromises. In my case, my wife certainly doesn't understand or agree with my obsession but she limits her responses to eye rolling and head shaking. :)
 
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