Let's Talk About Amplifiers (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

This metal jam on Game of Thrones came up with the Dream Theater video, so why not? It never occurred to me until this video that it's 3/4.

 

[John Dirk]

I listen to mostly lossless music from my personal collection or from Qobuz.

Check out the album road houses and automobiles by Chris Jones, there are a couple of tracks in that album that I truly love for an audiophile demo, including No Sanctuary Here and Thank You RJ Reynolds.

Do you have a genre of music you like more than others? I can make some more specific recommendations once you tell me

My tastes are pretty varied. Listening to Dream Theater's A Dramatic Turn of Events as I write this. Can't wait to hear this downstairs on my main system later this evening.

For demo material, however, I am more interested in instrumentals or electronic music [such as Kraftwerk] or well-produced hip hop such as anything touched by Dr. Dre.

 

[Dave Upton]

My tastes are pretty varied. Listening to Dream Theater's A Dramatic Turn of Events as I write this. Can't wait to hear this downstairs on my main system later this evening.

For demo material, however, I am more interested in instrumentals or electronic music [such as Kraftwerk] or well-produced hip hop such as anything touched by Dr. Dre.

You had me at electronic, as that is a huge passion of mine. A couple of albums I would suggest checking out:


It's a little off the wall, but Flight Patterns by Birds of Paradise is a real sonic journey with excellent production value.

Check out an artist named Suduaya, he has a totally fascinating take on goa psytrance with new age and world music elements mixed in.

If you haven't listened to any of his albums, Nigel Stanford is an incredibly talented producer who has a massive back catalog of great work. Check out his album Automatica that just came out in the last couple of years if you want a nice intro to his style of production.

When I get home to the computer I will post a much longer list of music to dig into.

 

[JohnRice]

One of my favorite Classical show off selections is Neeme Järvi conducts Saint-Saëns on Chandos. It's an aggressive, fast paced performance, with extra bass drum. The Samson and Delilah (who's not in for a good bacchanale?) and Danse Macabre are especially impressive showy pieces and performances.

 

[Dave Upton]

If you'd like to find out whether your bass is properly integrated, and also see how much damping factor can affect reproduction of sound, use this demo track that I often utilize in reviews. The lossless version of this album has insane dynamic range, and it is a master class in production quality as far as percussion recording goes.

 

[JohnRice]

If you'd like to find out whether your bass is properly integrated, and also see how much damping factor can affect reproduction of sound, use this demo track that I often utilize in reviews. The lossless version of this album has insane dynamic range, and it is a master class in production quality as far as percussion recording goes.

Where do you get that one, Dave?

...I see HDTracks has it.

 

[Dave Upton]

Where do you get that one, Dave?

...I see HDTracks has it.

That's where I got my copy

 

[JohnRice]

@Dave Upton , slightly off topic, but have you heard any feedback on THIS DAC? The Topping D90 you'd written about interested me, but this adds WiFi with built-in AirPlay and Roon, which might be an option for me to stream HD audio with. I need to explore that more, though.

I'm also looking at the IIS mod for my Oppo so I can play DSD. Or, for other options.

 

[John Dirk]

One of my favorites is Dream Theater's A Dramatic Turn of Events. There are several show off worthy pieces, but one that especially kicks your ass is Outcry.

After previewing this in my office earlier I was excited to hear it on my main system. As it turns out, it did not fill the room as I expected it would. I had to crank it up to higher levels than expected to really "feel" it.

If you'd like to find out whether your bass is properly integrated, and also see how much damping factor can affect reproduction of sound, use this demo track that I often utilize in reviews. The lossless version of this album has insane dynamic range, and it is a master class in production quality as far as percussion recording goes.

I was a percussionist in High School so this one brought back memories of those 3 hour practice sessions leading up to the big game's halftime show. As far as damping factor, etc. I guess I don't know what I should really be listening for.

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I realize these aren't lossless versions so I couldn't expect too much. Also, my system is still limping along until I get my Outlaw model 7140 back. For now I have a very old Acurus a200X3 handling the front stage and my even older Onkyo TX SR805 handling the rear. Speaking of the Onkyo, I have it's pre-outs connected to my Marantz AV7702. It doesn't seem like this should even work [output to output] but it does as long as I match the levels manually.

 

[JohnRice]

After previewing this in my office earlier I was excited to hear it on my main system. As it turns out, it did not fill the room as I expected it would. I had to crank it up to higher levels than expected to really "feel" it.

You're playing the YouTube video? ...well...

 

[John Dirk]

You're playing the YouTube video? ...well...

Right. That plus the hobbled together system I'm saddled with right now thanks the Outlaw's ridiculously slow turnaround on repairs. I was really looking for you thought on the Acurus and whether or not you feel a replacement is in order. I'm kind of leaning that way.

 

[JohnRice]

Right. That plus the hobbled together system I'm saddled with right now thanks the Outlaw's ridiculously slow turnaround on repairs. I was really looking for you thought on the Acurus and whether or not you feel a replacement is in order. I'm kind of leaning that way.

Sorry John, refresh my memory on what the deal is with the Acurus amp. I know the story with the Outlaw 7140. I've been thinking about upgrade routes. Unfortunately, you've probably found that there are no other reasonably priced 5 channel amps, that I'm aware of at least. I have some ideas, though. In my case, when it comes to Atmos, I'm pretty much decided that I'll drive my (eventual) 4 channels with (2) Emotiva Bas-X A-300s.

 

[John Dirk]

The Acurus is just very old and not generally regarded as very good based on my research. I was therefore thinking of relegating it to a less demanding role. I've been looking at the 3 channel version of your amp for my front stage but you said earlier that would be overkill. Full disclosure, sometimes I'm into overkill.

 

[JohnRice]

I've been looking at the 3 channel version of your amp for my front stage but you said earlier that would be overkill. Full disclosure, sometimes I'm into overkill.

I've been contemplating that, but I'm not sure you really want to dive into my mental process. It's gets scary in there. I hope you get a chance to sample a D-Sonic. I expect you'd be quite happy with the XPA-DR3, but I have to wonder, with your highly efficient speakers, if there would be a noticeable difference between it and the XPA-3, which costs 40% less. As radically different as our speakers are, they do have on thing in common, which is a tendency to be rather "lively", sometimes to a fault. In my case, the amp is a really good fit, but what kind of difference will the massive 15dB variation in their sensitivity make? I don't know.

There's a theory, particularly with Class A/B amps, that you don't want one that massively exceeds your power needs. The theory is that A/B amps have a "sweet spot" or at least an ideal operating range. You don't want to stress it by constantly pushing its limits, but you don't want it operating at such a low percentage of its capabilities that it's outside its optimal operating range. This doesn't apply to "high bias" A/B amps, but that's not the case here anyway. It also doesn't apply to Class D, since they operate in an on/off method, with the duration of the "on" varying in each cycle. It's just that the DR amps are seriously overpowered for your speakers. So, is that a bad thing?

So then the interesting thing is that the Emotiva XPA amps, both the regular and DR lines, are Class H, which is a variation of A/B. With Class H, the amp has more than one operating level. It normally operates at a lower level than maximum. In other words, it might be a 600 watt amp at maximum, but when that's not needed, it's just a, for example, 150 watt amp. So, if it's cruising along at a few watts, it's (at least in theory) operating in a better range than if it was a 600 watt amp. The outputs are operating like a 150 watt amp, not a 600 watt one. Then, if/when more power is needed, it instantly becomes a 600 watt amp.

The XPA amps are modular, and I suspect the modules in the DR line are essentially the same as the regular line. I don't know if Emotiva would answer that question. The difference is that the DR line has two modules for each channel, operating in a differential configuration, which increases power, but also pretty much eliminates common noise. One operates the positive signal and the other the negative. When they reach the speaker, common variations and noise cancel each other out. At least that's the theory of fully differential electronics.

So, the answer should be perfectly clear.

 

[John Dirk]

There's a theory, particularly with Class A/B amps, that you don't want one that massively exceeds your power needs. The theory is that A/B amps have a "sweet spot" or at least an ideal operating range. You don't want to stress it by constantly pushing its limits, but you don't want it operating at such a low percentage of its capabilities that it's outside its optimal operating range. This doesn't apply to "high bias" A/B amps, but that's not the case here anyway. It also doesn't apply to Class D, since they operate in an on/off method, with the duration of the "on" varying in each cycle. It's just that the DR amps are seriously overpowered for your speakers. So, is that a bad thing?

This sums up my conundrum perfectly. With my current configuration I don't believe my speakers are being driven hard enough to make them sound their best. I usually have to turn things up fairly loud to feel I am experiencing anything approaching visceral. At reasonable volumes they tend to sound a little more tame than I'd prefer. I know I'll be looking for a new amp when the Outlaw returns as 140 WPC is not what I want for my front stage at this point, although it would be fine for the rear or heights. I'm a little disappointed with the Outlaw overall and want whatever I buy this time around to be the last. With that in mind I'd rather over do it as opposed to the alternative.

I would LOVE to take a D Sonic for a spin as Class D is something I've only read about to date.

So, the answer should be perfectly clear.

Maybe not the answer but the explanations most certainly were. Thanks for taking the time to break it down for me.

 

[JohnRice]

That final sentence was sarcasm.

 

[John Dirk]

That final sentence was sarcasm.

I understood that but greatly appreciate the info nonetheless.

 

[JohnRice]

I understood that but greatly appreciate the info nonetheless.

So, what are you inclined to do?

I think I know what you're seeking, though. I call it the "Sonic Massage". Integration of the sub(s) is extremely important, and difficult.

 

[Dave Upton]

So, what are you inclined to do?

I think I know what you're seeking, though. I call it the "Sonic Massage". Integration of the sub(s) is extremely important, and difficult.

John (Dirk or Rice), I have a stereo M3a-3000S I'm happy to lend you for a demo if you'll pay shipping

 

[JohnRice]

John (Dirk or Rice), I have a stereo M3a-3000S I'm happy to lend you for a demo if you'll pay shipping

Sending you a message.