Learning to Build a Dedicated HT (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Potts]

You should always lay up your first two rows side by side and at the same time. This will insure tighter seams if done properly. By starting in opposite corners at the same time (even if the room's width is in multiples of four), you will more than likely end up having to cut the edges of the sheets off in order to get them to fit into place. This is a big pain in the butt to do and should be avoided at all costs.

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"See the world on the wings of rock and roll"

 

[Scott-C]

Thanks! Randy, I saw your link of course to the Duraspin but didn't know if it was a drywall screwgun or a "regular" screwgun - that's why I posed the question about them.
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Scott

 

[BrettK]

Kevin & Robin - Great info on drywall. Thanks!
Can anyone provide further information/resources on building a HT in general? (ie - as good as the drywall info is, there's obviously much more to a well-built HT) Acoustics (external - soundproofing and internal - HT acoustics), flooring, ventilation, lighting, decoration, seating, etc come to mind. I'm sure everything's been covered in this forum in the past, was just curious if people knew of any D-I-Y resources which maybe had a special eye or leaning toward HT-type projects.
Kevin: I'm not clear on your recommendations for hanging the drywall.
First: is the method you're suggesting for both ceiling and walls?
Second: If I understand correctly, you're suggesting laying/hanging two rows of drywall boards next to each other? Won't this put the drywall seams in one large row? Robin's description seems to make more sense to me for staggering the seams.
Third: You've indicated that factory-cut edges may not be ideal. Are you recommending making your own cuts on all edges/sides only?
Thanks for your help guys, this reading is absolutely fantastic!
Brett

 

[Shaun Pressley]

BrettK, one of the best ways I learned how to build my HT was by learning from others' lessons learned and following their construction. I spent a year on the various HT Construction sites(Avsforum and HTSpot) reading and asking questions. In return, I documented my progress on my website (over 200 pictures) with some documentation and continually updated my thread on the AVS HT Construction forum. I need to redo my website with a better layout, but you can still check it out at Link Removed .
I was very surprised how many friends I made during this process and how many people called me, email me with their questions/comments/suggestions. I couldn't have done it with the support you get on these forums. No doubt about it.
I did hire a contractor to help me hang walls/ceiling, sheetrock, tape, mud and electrical. After that, I did the rest by myself for the most part.
Best piece of advice I can give those of you who are getting ready to undertake this project is take pictures, post them and ask for suggestions on how to do it better. If you're not comfortable with some part of the construction process, like me, hire it out.
Good luck!

 

[Patrick Bennett]

My advice is to seek the services of a professional. I used Dennis Erskine (. http://www.designcinema.com ) for the theater design. I think I originally found out about him here, although he started frequenting the AVS forum's Theater Construction section later on.
I can't recommend him highly enough, and his prices were extremely reasonable. He designd the complete package - acoustics, everything. Acoustics in particular were one area that I knew I would have problems with.
I learned enough on the forums to be dangerous, and enough to know that no one locally had a clue about what they were doing.
If you're going to build a full 'dedicated' theater room, then, at least IMO, you should seek out somebody like Dennis.
Let me know if you have any questions...
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The Bennett Home Theater: Link Removed

 

[Kevin Potts]

quote: First: is the method you're suggesting for both ceiling and walls?[/quote]
No, walls are hung differently. When hanging the walls always hang the top row first and then the bottom row. This will insure a tighter fit.
quote: Second: If I understand correctly, you're suggesting laying/hanging two rows of drywall boards next to each other? Won't this put the drywall seams in one large row? Robin's description seems to make more sense to me for staggering the seams.[/quote]
The staggered seams that are being refered to are the butt joint seams.(see below for definition) Having a recessed joint that runs the length of the room is unavoidable and will have no affect on the quality of the hangin job as long as it is mudded and taped properly.
Now I know this is going to sound very confusing but bear with me. If it helps, draw it out on a sheet of paper as I explain it. So let's assume for a minute that you're going to be using all 12ft. sheets to hang the ceiling. To start you need to hang a full sheet or as close to a full sheet as possible to begin your first row. After you've hung the first sheet in the first row you need to start the second row. To start the second row, you need to hang a 6ft. sheet or as close to a 6ft. sheet as possible to start your second row. After you've hung the first sheet in the second row, hang the second sheet in the second row. Then the second sheet in the first row. Then the third sheet in the second row. Keep alternating back and forth between the two rows until you have them completely done. After you have completed the first two rows, you can start hanging the other rows one at a time. Using this method will insure three things.
1. Your butt joint seams (The butt joint is a term used for the edge at the end of the sheet. The recessed joint is a term used for the long edge of the sheet.) will be staggered by about half a sheet length. So if you use 12ft. sheets the seams will be separated by about 6ft. If you use 10ft. sheets your seams will be separated by about 5ft. and so on and so forth.
2. By doing this it will be a lot easier to get your long edges (recessed joints) lined up perfectly. If they are not lined up with each other as you look down the rows, you will end up with gaps. They will start out small at first, but the more rows you put up the more the gaps will increase with each consecutive row.
3. This method will also allow for the fact that most factory cut butt joints are not square with the recessed joints. When hanging the sheets on the ceiling, always make sure the recessed edges are pushed up against each other all the way down the length of the sheets even if the butt joints don't necessarily line up evenly. THIS IS OF UPMOST IMPORTANCE.
quote: Third: You've indicated that factory-cut edges may not be ideal. Are you recommending making your own cuts on all edges/sides only?[/quote]
No, this is not necessary. If the butt joints don't fit evenly up to each other, it will not usually cause any problems other than having to fill in the gap with joint compound or having to toenail the joint. (Toenailing is done when there isn't very much wood to fasten the screws to so you have to use drywall nails and drive them in at an angle.)
One important suggestion that I failed to mention in my earlier posts is that if you're going to hang the sheets yourself, rent a drywall lift. They rent at most places for around $20.00 a day and are almost a must have for beginners. Plus it will save you a lot of backaches and it will make it a lot easier to get the sheets aligned properly.
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"See the world on the wings of rock and roll"
[Edited last by Kevin Potts on September 04, 2001 at 08:58 PM]
[Edited last by Kevin Potts on September 06, 2001 at 05:03 PM]

 

[Scott-C]

Patrick,
How detailed are Dennis Erskine's plans as far as showing you HOW to do each specific portion of a dedicated home theater? In other words, do his plans give you detailed instructions on how to actually do the work, or are they more a sequential listing of the steps involved but require that you know how to do each of the steps?
To me, there are (at least) two broad aspects to building a dedicated HT. First, understanding the steps involved in the creation of one (framing, drywall, PVC pipe, HVAC, soundproofing, acoustic treatments, etc.). Second, the "know-how" for each of the above steps - meaning the acquisition of the knowledge (how to frame, how to put up drywall, how to soundproof, etc.).
I've heard nothing but great things about Dennis - but I would like more detailed info on what he provides. I kind of feel like I have a lot of questions similar to what BrettK mentioned in his post. There's a lot of steps involved in a HT project - in fact, tonight I started creating an implementation plan and I'm trying to sequentially list all the steps. Once that's reasonably complete, I'll be able to start to fill in the details of each step and then learn how to do it. But, I feel like I have so much to learn about the soundproofing, acoustic treatments, etc. (everything BrettK mentioned). I think he hit the essence of my original post on this thread!
Kevin/Robin: the drywall posts are incredibly valuable, in fact the most detailed instructions for installation that I've seen yet. Now if I can only find places to get that level of detail for all the other aspects of a HT site!
Shaun, I think your advice is very valuable. In fact, I was surfing around your site last week and saw your post on AVS Forum. Speaking for myself, I certainly don't mind doing lots of online research, reading many posts on the various HT forums, etc. That being said, it would be great if there were a few key sites that provided a great deal of the information to get me started! I do think it's great to have a place like this in which to start, and asking questions of members, as well as visiting personal HT sites and noting what was done are good ways to pick up some of the knowledge that is needed.
Here's a question: does anyone have a copy of their HT implementation plan (i.e. sequential listing of the steps involved) that they wouldn't mind posting on this thread? That might be an extremely valuable document for those of us who are trying to plan and don't want to forget anything! If not, perhaps someone could start a plan and others could help fill it in.
For example (and this is so incomplete it isn't even funny):
1. Design HT on paper
2. Create blueprints/PC CAD 3D drawing
3. Frame walls with studs (what size?)
4. Run component wiring (speaker cable, component interconnects, etc.) in PVC tube (but how to install tube?)
5. Run electrical wiring
6. Electrical work
7. Insulation
8. Install 1st layer of drywall
9. Install soundboard
10. Install two PVC pipes with wires and pull-through string
11. Install second layer of drywall
12. Paint walls
13. Install acoustic paneling
What else?
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Scott

 

[Robin Smith]

Kevin,
I don't see how your method avoids the problem you are describing with I suggest unless you are advocating cutting all edges to be square and that is something I would NOT recommend by any stretch of the imagination.
In fact, I am not sure I understand exactly how you are saying to hang the sheetrock anymore.
All I can say is that with the three ceilings I have helped hang, the method I described worked very well with absolutely no problems. The mudder (who was not me) had no problems getting a lovely smooth finish and did not complain in the least about our approach. The end result was very satisfying and continues to look great and I am NOT a professional hanger.
The squareness, or lack thereof, of a sheet of drywall is going to cuase problems no matter how you hang. Personally, I think it is a non-issue unless you buy horribly unsquare drywall.
My prime goal was to put all cut parts of drywall to the outer perimeter since the cut pieces don't have the nice sloping indent the manufacturer's edges have to help with smooth mudding.
With my method there are a minimal amount of cuts required and all cuts are to the outside which will be "hidden" by the wall's sheetrock.
Check my crappy ASCII art below for a 14' * 23' ceiling.
"-" represents a non-cut edge.
"+" represents a cut edge:
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If you can follow my cheesey drawing, I'd like to know specifically why this is NOT a good method and what about the method you are proposing is better. Because I don't see it.
Thanks
Robin Smith
ps Ooops, I had to edit it as the ascii masterpiece didn't work with spaces
pss Double oops you'll probably need to copy my ascii van gogh into notepad to really visualize what I am talking about as even the periods didn't make it line up. Sorry
[Edited last by Robin Smith on September 04, 2001 at 10:20 PM]
[Edited last by Robin Smith on September 04, 2001 at 10:22 PM]

 

[Patrick Bennett]

How detailed are Dennis Erskine's plans as far as showing you HOW to do each specific portion of a dedicated home theater? In other words, do his plans give you detailed instructions on how to actually do the work, or are they more a sequential listing of the steps involved but require that you know how to do each of the steps?

Scott, his plans are 'fairly' detailed. They're not engineering blue-prints (the stud goes >hereeverything

 

[Mac F]

Scott,
step 8 in your list, install pvc pipes; I'm not sure what you are up to here. Are you installing pipes through the sheetrock or between layers
There is a nice article recently in Widescreen review discussing sound insulation. There is one article by someone with Owens-Corning on their Quiet Zone construction. This would be an advanced project, and your average construction crew has never heard of it. I don't have the exact reference just now, but it was within the past few months.

 

[Kevin Potts]

With my method there are a minimal amount of cuts required and all cuts are to the outside which will be "hidden" by the wall's sheetrock.

There is no more cutting involved using my method than there is using yours.
My apologies but I'm not following your drawings and I'm not yet proficient enough on the computer to be able to use the decoding program you are referring to.
Peace
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"See the world on the wings of rock and roll"

 

[Scott-C]

Mac,
I've noticed that many people recommend attaching PVC pipe or conduit behind the wall and running all wiring through it. That way, if you ever want to pull through additional wire, it's easier to do (I first came across this idea on Robert Fowkes' (RAF) website. He has pictures posted of it and you can find his site by going to the bottom of any of his posts on this forum). I've also heard it's a good idea to run string through it prior to installing the pipe, so you can attach any wire to the string and pull it through at a later time. Truthfully, I'm not sure how the pipe gets attached since there's studs back there - I haven't gotten that far in my learning yet.
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Scott

 

[Alfonso_M]

The Wide Screen Review sound insulation article detailing the Owen Corning’s “Quiet Zone” installation and interview was feature in June's issue, the new WSR's HT room costruction was feature in several issues, very good reading for those of us in the planning stages.
Owen Corning employed a newly designed alternative method/system comparable to the better known “Recilient Channel” approach used by Randy de la Fuente’s excellent step by step description on this board. This system offers an alternative for those with limited space (width) because it uses less space to accomplish comparable noise reduction measurements; I haven’t researched pricing yet, so cost still needs to be calculated.
http://www.owenscorning.com/around/s...allframing.asp
Here’s is another sound insulation product I’m contemplating using because of my limited available width (10’)
http://www.acoustiblok.com/

 

[Scott-C]

That acoustiblok product sounds interesting. I emailed them to find out the price. If I get a response, I'll post it here for anyone who's interested.
If one were to use too much of a product like that, isn't it possible to make the room too "dead"? I would imagine there are limits to the number of places you should use a product like this, aren't there?
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Scott

 

[Scott-C]

Well, I did get an email back from Acoustiblok on pricing, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to share it over the Web since it was marked as confidential. However, all I thought of when I calculated the total to cover an "average" HT was "ouch!"
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Scott

 

[BrettK]

Here's Robin's ASCII drawing in Courier font, which should hopefully line it up:

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Brett

 

[Robin Smith]

Brett,
Thanks, I didn't know we could do that! Now it looks like the way I meant it to.
Kevin, I appreciate that you have more experience than I at this, but I have yet to hear from you exactly how the method you are proposing is superior to what I suggest. In fact, I don't really see how your method is that different, or I don't understand what you are suggesting. Simply saying you are an expert does not mean you are right and I am wrong.
I don't mean this to be insulting but, I would appreciate it if you would please explain the way you would hang ceiling drywall instead of just criticizing my suggestions. What is that different about it? We would all benefit from your ideas if you'd share them in an easily understandable way.
Anyone else have any opinions/experience with this?
Patrick, how much do you estimate you saved on the total cost of the job by being your own general contractor? When I do my HT, there will be some jobs I will confident doing on my own (including drywall!!) and others I any consider farming out (mudding and some of the electrical for example). What is a ballpark figure for getting someone to draw up your HT plans/design a la Dennis? Are we talking $500 or $2500? Just looking for a ballpark figure to see if the cost is justifiable to my wallet and wife.
Scott-C, this kind of thing is always pricey. Frustratingly so. I'd like to know how much better the professional (overpriced?) soundcontrol products are over some of the tecniques that can be used to minimize sound travel (staggered studs, regular insulation, double layers of drywall, etc)? I think the DIY type steps that can be taken seem to do a good eneough job (based on others feedback), I wonder how much more you gain for the extra investment in these products.
Thanks
Robin Smith

 

[Kevin Potts]

Robin,
I'm sorry if I was rude in my earlier statements. I didn't mean to sound condescending. I was just trying to give a little background into where I'm coming from on the matter at hand. Hanging sheetrock is something I take very seriously and I'm only trying to keep people from creating problems for themselves. Like I stated earlier, I'm asking you trust me and take my word for it. I've hung lids in all different ways and the method I'm suggesting is the most tried and true and the most foolproof for a good hanging job. Once in a while I will hang the first row all at one time but only in certain situations and only if the room is no more than two(ie. 8ft or less)rows wide.
As far as your concerns about how my method is superior to yours, most of the time when hanging the first row all by itself and all at one time the recessed edges of the sheet will not line up in a perfectly straight line. This is critcal to how the other rows will line up. If the first row is not perfectly straight, it will start to cause gaps in between the recessed edges of the sheets. This gap will get bigger and bigger with each row that you put up. On a room that is just a couple of rows wide, this wouldn't be that big of deal. But if the room is several rows wide this will end up being a nightmare because as the gap between the rows increases it will be harder and harder to get the sheets lined back up. After you put up the first row using the method you are describing, a person could take a chalk line or long string, stretch it out from one end of the room to the other along the edge of the row and you could see that the staight and true string is not lining up with the edge of the row. This is what will cause the problems later on down the road as you put up each row.
Let me try and get some diagrams made up so I can post them on this thread. That might help you and others to understand what it is I'm trying to explain a little better. It may take a couple of days so please hang with me. (no pun intended of course)
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"See the world on the wings of rock and roll"
[Edited last by Kevin Potts on September 05, 2001 at 11:57 PM]

 

[Mac F]

Scott,
The reason for my question may have been a mis-understanding of your list. For instance I meant item 10 rather than 8- that is why I shouldn't play internet that late at night after a long day. I have trouble keeping myself out of this forum.
I quite agree with you about the value of conduit and the string. If the string breaks, you may be able to insert a new one into empty conduit by attaching thread to a ball of cotton and using the blower from your shop vac to push it through. Anything is better than metal fish tape.
I may have misunderstood if the conduit is to go behind both layers of sheetrock or between them. Usually conduit is run through holes drilled into the studs and will attach to a standard junction box. For audio work, this will decrease the soundproofing unless you can seal the box.
For conduit, I recommend the flexible blue acordian tubes. I've never worked with the rigid tubing- it looks like too much work, unless you need the physical protection for the wires. Any air spaces between the two sheetrock layers will decrease (slightly) the rigidity of the wall. Two thin layers will vibrate nore easily than one heavy one. My office is separated from the one next door with double sheetrock on either side of staggered studs. This has been adequate in an office setting for years, but the fellow next door doesn't have a subwoofer in his office either.
The ouch from Owens Corning is {unfortunately} what I expected, but I suspect we could learn from the article. My guess is that ordinary silicone sealant would block sound transmission almost as well as their product, and would certainly be better than nothing at all, as is used in most sheetrock installations. Does anybody have any real experience with the Quiet Zone line?
The purpose of the soundproofing is to keep outside noise out and your noise in. It will have little do with the live or deadness of the theater. This will be determined by absorptive materials inside the room: stuffed furniture, wood paneling, carpet, glass windows, number of people, etc.

 

[Patrick Bennett]

Just looking for a ballpark figure to see if the cost is justifiable to my wallet and wife.

If your intention is to have a truly 'dedicated' home cinema (I like that term better - when I say home theater people always think of a RPTV w/ some cabinetry) with great looks and great acoustics, then you owe it to yourself to involve a professional. My speaker choices changed (thankfully) because of Dennis, he arranged the theater in a way I wouldn't have thought of (VERY thankfully), and taught me tons. Although my theater isn't "finished" (I can't yet afford the equipment that I meant to be there) I think my pictures say a lot about Dennis's work.
Cheers...
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The Bennett Home Theater: Link Removed