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LCD vs CRT vs projection- what's best for gaming? (1 Viewer)

Jay_Worth

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May 18, 2004
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Making a bit more sense, though much of it is still greek to me.

''Signal type: NTSC, decoded ATSC (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i)''

That sounds dubious, no?

I'm curious as to what the converted 1080i looks like as opposed to the true 720p. I do have a couple of 720p games... I think I'll try setting the Xbox dash to 480p, and 720p, I'll give Freedom Fighters a try later and see what the dif is. If any. Then again, I don't even know what this TV will do with it. I guess I'll see what happens.

Frank-

''A 30" CRT seems too small unless you intend to sit right on top of it (but for games, maybe you do).''

True. I sit right by this thing. This 40 inch screen is too big for me anyway.

''Any CRT-based display will risk burn-in due stationary game items (health bars, etc.)''

I'm aware of the risks, and I'm actually pretty anal about periodic poweroffs, mode switches, etc. But I actually wasn't aware that CRT had burn-in...

Here's what one guy told me...

''CRT(picture tube) TVs:
negatives- bulky and heavy(my set weighs 230 lbs.). Biggest size is 40 inches.
positives- the longest lifespan, best contrast and brightness. THE MOST SUPERIOR PICTURE FOR
DVD, GAMES and HDTV. No motion blur or burn in. wide viewing angle. Most expensive sets are only $2,499.99.''

But that's just one guy's view. I've gotta get many different opinions, because I'm feeling over my head, here!

''- Be *very* leary of any direct-view CRT that claims to display (not just accept) 720p. As far as I know, only the expensive Anaconda can display.''

Definitely. That's why I came here, to find out what 'accept' meant.

I wish I could find a TV in my price range that can do 720p, truly. It's proving an impossible task!
 

Matthew Todd

Second Unit
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Jan 3, 2000
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338


I believe there is an LCD front projector (Sanyo Z2?) that is native 720p for about $2000.

Is front projection even a possibility in your room?

Matt
 

Jay_Worth

Grip
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
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It might be a possibility... my room is in the basement, and I have one tiny little window, but it's not really an option I'm considering, to be honest.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Sony KV30HS510... like you said, it converts 720p to 1080i. And I was just speaking with somebody (via the internet, God bless this invention), and they said that 720p games definitely look better than 480p games... and really, I guess that will have to be good enough for me. I'll have to bite the bullet and accept that TRUE 720p might not be a possibility, when taking into consideration all the things I want/need/can afford.

Thanks again.
 

ChrisLazarko

Supporting Actor
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Aug 13, 2003
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Honestly I think the 1080i Mitsubishi TV's are some of the best available. I love them, and I think they have some of the best image quality. I also found that the TV I am using which I have had since 1998 has no suffered any burn in from it's more than 30 hours of gameplay a week. I would take a look at them if you would like a big TV with good resolution.
 

Brandon Pop

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Feb 15, 2004
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61
As an avid gamer myself, I have seen a lot of different monitors with various gaming systems. XBOX will obviously benefit most from an HDTV as it is the only system that makes games that can display full HD. I do not like the appearance of Rear Projection tv's, plasmas or lcd monitors with my games. I prefer the old fashion direct view sets. Personally my favorite one is the Sony XBR 40. It is the largest direct view set made and in HD my xbox games looked flawless, no blurs, "digi-squares" etc seen on other types of sets. Any Sony XBR will look great, one friend has the 32 and the other has a 27, and they both look outstanding with games. If you have Soul Calibur 2 on xbox I challenge you to find a better looking image than on a sony xbr set. Stunning. Also I would recommend you not get the XBR 30 or 34 as they are widescreens, and 95% of games on all systems are not widescreen, thus you will have black bars on the sides of your games.
 

Jay_Worth

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May 18, 2004
Messages
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Brandon- that sounds interesting. After a quick google search, I see that the CTR XBR's also convert 720p to 1080i. Soul Calibur does support 720p, and you say you're pleased with the graphics after the conversion, so that's a good sign. Have you ever seen Soul Calibur at 480p? For comparison's sake. I have the PS2 version of Soul Calibur.

As far as widescreen, I definitely prefer it. I'm playing Transformers right now, which does support 16:9, and makes a big difference... I also have the new X-Files game, Resist or Serve (a pleasantly surprising game) and I'm playing that in 16:9... so, it has proven pretty useful to me and I'd miss it if I had a 4:3! I've played a few non-16:9 games since I've had this RPTV, and I don't mind the bars too much.

And this purchase is for the future, as well... I definitely want 16:9 for, in the short term, Halo 2, and all Xbox2/PS3/N5 games in the long term. I'd love to have 720p, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

Sean Moon

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Jan 25, 2001
Messages
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There are a handful of games out there that support widescreen and dont openly state it as well. And with 480p you can always do some of the stretch modes or zoom and never notice any difference. I have a panny 47 and XBOX looks amazing on my widescreen.

And on the issue of XBOX dashboard only being 480i, if you get the newest update for XBOX live, it allows you to make the dash 480p!:)

Of all the technologies, I still say rear projection CRT is the way to go. It is the most affordable, gives the best picture out there too. But it is the largest, heaviest, and highest maitenence to get hte best out of it. If you are willing to invest the time into tweaking, CRT is still king.

Of the new techs, I would go DLP. Slim, light, and all so sexy. No burn in, but you will need to replace the bulb sometime in the future. The LCD sets I have seen, specifically the grand WEGAs, there is too much of a blue tint to everything, and black levels are still kinda lacking.
 

Jay_Worth

Grip
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May 18, 2004
Messages
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''Of all the technologies, I still say rear projection CRT is the way to go''

Really... what are the advantages to a CRT rear projection? I have an RPTV, but I get severe motion blurring with PS2, and minor ghosting/trailing in general. Do you know any good RP CRTs?
 

Brad-blemansk

Auditioning
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May 19, 2004
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I'm basically in the same boat as you, trying to figure out what my next TV will be. I've considered direct view CRTs (mainly the 34" XBR910 (superfine pitch) or the 40" XBR), rear projection TVs (Pioneer Elite, Mitsubishi Platinum and Diamond line), DLP (43" and 46" Samsung), LCD Rear Projection (42" Grand Wega), and little bit of LCOS (Philips Cineos). I haven't really looked at Plasmas mainly due to burn-in scare since I play video games.

From what I've found, there really is no best set. You really have to determine what you are going to be using it for mainly, and if you have space limits in your house/apartment.

Since I live in a high-rise, I really don't want a huge rear projection CRT even though the Pioneer Elites and high end Mitsubishis look incredible for DVDs and HD when properly set up due to the huge size. Plus, burn-in is more of an issue with these compared to the other sets I've looked at which is something I'd worry about since I don't really want to stretch 4:3 images. This pretty much eliminated these from consideration for me. I'd recommend these if you are going to have a dedicated room for movie and HD viewing especially if you want a huge screen. This doesn't seem to be what you want though.

Next I looked at DLPs, which seem great but are a little pricy IMO still. I'm lucky and don't see rainbows when I look at one, but some people do. Due to way the image is displayed with a color wheel, some people see rainbows if they move their eyes quickly across the screen. Make sure you try this before you look to buy one. The big plus on these is the great picture for HD, DVDs, and games as well as a thin, lightweight cabinet. They are currently priced higher than I want to spend on an HDTV right now though, and there is a similar technology that is cheaper that I feel is very similar.

That technology is LCD rear projection. Rather similar to DLPs, at least the Grand Wega one was, these TVs seem to be less. A 42" is closer to 2400 instead of 3K for a DLP. I'm not sure I can tell a 600 dollar difference between the two. That's probably the price of your Xbox2 and PS3. I think this may be the current front-runner for me.

I also like the direct view CRTs, but they are large and heavy too. The 30" and 34" XBR 910s (superfine pitch) aren't too big, but are very heavy. You don't want to move these things too much. The thing is, I think these 2 TVs have the best picture I've seen. They are widescreen, not too badly priced, burn-in shouldn't really be an issue, and if you don't mind the space or weight it could be the perfect TV for you.

I'll be honest, that 40" monster direct view XBR almost has as nice of a picture as the 910XBR and is about the same price as the 30" widescreen. The thing is, when you display widescreen on the 40" tube, it is actually bigger than a 30" widescreen TV. Since there is still a ton of 4:3 programming and games, this may actually be your best fit. I couldn't go that route simply because the set would probably require about 4 guys to move and the depth of the set is pretty big. If these aren't issues, I'd check it out since the widescreen size is the same for games or DVDs as a 30" widescreen, but it is much bigger for 4:3 content.

Summary - for me, I'd pick either the 42" Grand Wega, I also hear some other brands are making pretty nice LCD rear projections that will probably be less too, or one of the direct view CRTs probably the 34" 910XBR.

Hope this helps.
 

John Doh

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Jun 24, 2003
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Brad,

That is a fair observation about the current technologies available. I do want to re-emphasize a few pionts though. The major downfall with LCD technology as a gaming monitor is the motion blur effects and burn-in factors. Motion blur is one of Jay's hot buttons, and you will experience this on any LCD screen (some more than others, but this is a inherant characteristic of the technology). Also, burn-in is a factor for every TV technology out there except for DLP. I am fortunate enough to not see rainbows, but from what I understand from reading most material on rainbows, they are usually spotted when watching movies/programming when the scene goes from extreme darkness, to a bright scene quickly. For the most part, this isn't a commonplace in gaming (at least not the games I play.. Sports, racing, some FPSer's). Screen burn is a MAJOR factor in gaming and usually occurs in games where a constant piece of artwork is present on the screen most of time, for example... FPSer's were your ammo and life bars are located...these things stay on the screen all the time; racing games where the speedometer, or map, rear-view mirror are on the screen anytime a race is going on... these items WILL leave burn-in on your screen if you play games a lot, which is what it sounds like Jay is going to do. Jay - CRT projection or direct views ALL suffer from burn-in under these circumstances. If you are going to be playing games as much as you say you are, pay the extra money for a DLP. Zero screen burn...zilch. Zero motion blur. Take a hard look at it because why spend 1500-2000 on a set that very well may experience "burn-in" in only a years use due to your gaming habits, when you can spend a bit more and never have to worry about that...and as a bonus, the DLP's are 720p native for future expandability. Now of course 1080p is going to be available by the end of this year in the DLP line-up but that will be a considerable jump in funds...Take a good look before you jump. Later!
 

Jay_Worth

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May 18, 2004
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Yeah, I don't want anything that will result in any sort of motion blurring or ghosting or anything like that. It might not be a big deal when watching DVDs or other programming, but for gaming, it totally taints the experience. I actually had to go back to the pathetic 20 incher to be able to tolerate Transformers' detailed environments and fast action sequences. Just turning in a corridor on the RPTV was an eyesore. I'm not at all concerned about films and shows on this TV, so I'm only focusing on what's best for gaming. The only thing I ever watch on TV is hockey and sports highlights. Typical Canadian, eh? As for movies, I'm content with movies of the 700MB, .avi variety, if you catch my drift.

I don't think I'll EVER be able to afford DLP, though I'd love to have it.. the prices in Candada aren't even on planet earth. One thing, though, about burn-in... I'm anal about it. Even with this LG TV here, I was switching aspect ratios/input modes/pausing to go to different screens quite often. Not a big deal for me. I never let the bars stay on screen during 4:3 mode for long, and I never leave the TV on when I leave the room. If I'm careful about it, and not lazy (and I believe I was quite active and aware), should I be OK? Or is burn-in going to be an issue on CRT regardless of how responsible and careful I am?

I'm definitely leaning towards the KV30HS510. The price, size, and features are just right.
 

Brad-blemansk

Auditioning
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May 19, 2004
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10
I don't think you can get burn in on an LCD rear projection TV, due to the fact that it is a fixed pixel display. It should be more along the lines of a DLP, in that regard. Something to worry about though is getting dead or stuck pixels. This really isn't too bad unless you have multiple ones close together, if that happens it is annoying.

A direct view CRT shouldn't really have a problem with burn-in. That's what he is probably using now, as are most people in the US, and he probably isn't seeing a burn-in. You have to seriously play games that have a static display someplace on the screen for quite some time to get burn-in on a direct view set. Rear projection, on the other hand, can be much quicker usually.

I agree that if you can't see rainbows, and I really don't think it is as commonplace as some places make it seem, a DLP set is your best bet for a video game TV. The only thing is that you really have to pay at least 3K to get one, so i was trying to offer some alternatives that really are not that much worse. If you only have 2K to spend and you can't get a DLP, I don't think you'll be upset with Grand Wega or a very nice direct view set. I've seen some LCD RPs that look pretty bad, but this set looks very nice. Actually 2k probably won't get the Wega, it's more like 2400. The Grand Wega will get you 720P and convert 1080i and the direct view will give you 1080i and convert 720P.

The thread on the new Toshiba line up sounds pretty nice. They have a couple of DLPs that may end up streeting less the current Sammys, and if that's the case they may be a perfect fit. They also have some direct view sets to look at too.



I think that set sounds like it will do basically what you want it to do. As long as the size is what you want, and you have enough space for it, it should treat you nicely.

Burn-in really shouldn't happen unless you leave a game paused with a heads-up display on for hours, probably days.
 

Jay_Worth

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May 18, 2004
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What about the new KV30HS420? I was talking to the guy from one of the shops, and he said it had all the features of the HS510, and maybe more. It costs 300 dollars less (1999 vs 1699). Another guy at a DIFFERENT vendor was unsure. Both can order it in for me.

Is this TV pretty much the same as the previous model? I've been having a tough time coming to a conclusion.

I'm almost assuredly going to buy one of those two. The cheaper one, if the features are similar.
 

Jay_Worth

Grip
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May 18, 2004
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Hmm, looks like the 420 is ''dumbed down'' a bit... particularly speaker wise. It's also missing some enhanced 16-9 modes.
 

Jay_Worth

Grip
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May 18, 2004
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Does anyone know anything about the Toshiba 42H83? I followed your advice and brought in a PS2 to test it on some TVs... this was the most impressive. It worked great, no ghosting/motion blur.

What's the deal with the 540p? What will that result in?
 

Andrew John

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Apr 26, 2004
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Hi i did over a years research in NZ on this subject i watch a lot of satelite tv even more dvd's and a lot of xbox gaming we don't get a high def xbox here so i don't know about 720p etc but the xbr910 sony mentioned is just about identical to my KVHR32M31 high def compatible tv.And to quote sony technical dept "their is no way that these crt screens will suffer burn" according to the rep sony have protected these tv,s>have you tried talking to the sony technical dept in your country to see what they say.Just my .02 cents worth.
 

John Doh

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NZ = New Zealand? I didn't know the Xbox's were different in terms of capabilities, outside the US..interesting.

Well, the Sony tech rep lied, or rather overexaggerated if he in fact said their CRT TV's won't suffer screen burn. It comes with the technology. Now if he precluded that response with "...if you take care in limiting your Sony TV from exposure to static images, there is no way these CRT's will burn..." he would be correct. I have had a 32" WEGA for 2 years and it has screen burn from the outline of the speedometer used in Need for Speed. All CRT's will suffer screen burn (regardless of manufacturer) unless care is taken to minimize static image exposure.
 

Andrew John

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Apr 26, 2004
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Yep the gear we get here suks at times.Due to our govt not being able to make a decision.Now re this burn in i played need for speed 0n a 29 inch mitsubishi diva with auto swivel for years on a playstation one i would play so long i would fall asleep sometimes no burn in.I have also seen my tv and the 36 inch version with a static display for days on end since about november maybe they have found a way to protect as i suspect ?
 

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