LCD RP I think I am sold on it

Discussion in 'Displays' started by John S, Mar 31, 2005.

  1. John S

    John S Producer

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    The Sony's have been catching my eye quite a bit lately and then last night I got to tweek a Panasonic PT-60LC14 and I have to admit, it was an extremely impressive Display.

    Only tested with DVD, but man was it good. The owner didn't have any widescreen DVD's, so I took the Jurasic Park and Indy Jones Box sets over for testing.

    Black levels seemed very deep, viewing angles were impressive, color depth was what I'll label as rich.

    Color and Grey scale tracking did seem a little odd though. You had to go back and forth quite a bit between the levels of Color, Tint, brightness, and Picture(Contrast) because they all seem to effect one another in some way. Not at all like the CRT Projection I am used too.

    The SDE I had noticed up close at CC on it, seemed completely gone in the home. Maybe a hint of macroblocking (not sure, but this is what I call it) apparent on foggy / misty scenes.

    The cheapo DVD player, didn't seem to pass blacker than black at all. I ended up once again not using 480p from the player as it seemed so much better using 480i via component video letting the Display do the de-interlacing.

    I can say, that I brought these two box sets over, to really look at the detail in all the dark scenes in them, I found the display and the cheapie DVD player to do an extra-oridnary job during the dark scenes throughout these movies. Like in J.Park III where he and the boy are inside the Tanker Truck, I found the level of detail back in the shadows to be glorious.


    I really think I am getting more and more sold on this technology way over DLP, I have not got to really play with LCOS though.
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    I have generally been happier with the LCD RP units than the DLP RP units. The LCD ones just calibrate better. (This says nothing about why I got a RP DLP unit for myself but it was for computer monitor purposes.)

    While RP DLPs may lay claim to having superior black levels, once you understand how they achieve it and why they look that way, you appreciate the LCD black levels better. It may not be the black black that we hope for ... but the transition to black on LCD units is far more natural/smoother than on any competing RP DLP unit.

    Oddly enough, when it comes to the mid range FPTV arena, the roles reverse and I would take DLP over LCD without hesitation.

    Regards
     
  3. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    i'm with you as well john.

    when i first started checking out these tv's, i kept praising dlp. but, over time, i've just come to like the lcd pictures better. to me they're sharper and brighter, with just as good shadow/dark detail.

    i'm probably going to pick up the sony 60" pretty soon...hopefully within a couple of months.
     
  4. Alan Wise

    Alan Wise Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    My Hitachi 60v500a amazes me with it's crisp picture. I have never felt that the black level was lacking. Occasionaly I see some screen door effect, but it is rare. I did need to re-learn how to "tweak" a TV though. The rules of turning down the brightness and contrast that are paramount to a CRT set, do not apply here. I have been a self proclaimed Sony fan for years, but I liked the Hitachi better. That was compared to the "WE" Sony's. To me the "XBR" Sony's are in a class by themselves. I just couldn't justify the extra cash outlay verus the Hitachi.
    I also agree with Michael. When shopping I gave DLP a serious look, but felt the LCD was better. Maybe it was because the LCD's all use three panels, where as the DLP's I was comparing had only one and used a color wheel.


    Alan Wise
     
  5. Bob_Campbell

    Bob_Campbell Stunt Coordinator

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    Alan and John,

    To respectfuly reply to, "To me the "XBR" Sony's are in a class by themselves." Not a chance, the Hitachi Director Series 60vx915 is by far the best LCD on the market. The black levels are almost on par to the best DLP. The colors are bright and viberant. NO screendoor efect, minor glare in brightness. NO pixel lag, just a great product IMO. Well, good luck with your search.

    Bob

    PS this set also has 2 hdmi slots where most only have 1
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    I'll have to take note, to really check one out the next time I come across one.

    Didn't seem CC carried it or any Hitachi LCD RP's?
     
  7. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    John, when you get your hands on a Hitachi Ultravision LCD ... see if it is as unwieldy as I am finding it. These units just seem to refuse to be properly calibrated for grayscale. I like the standard line of Hitachi LCD RP units much better. Add to that the unremoveable reflective screen ...

    Regards
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    Interesting.. I mean some of that seems inheirent in the design in general. I can only imagine if it was any worse than I experienced last night...

    Seriously, I get one thing adjusted, go to the next, re-adjust the thing I just adjusted, then re-adjust the second item again, go back to 1st item again, then 2nd item again, then go to third item, then go back and adjust 1 again, then 2 again, then 3 again (repeat), then get to item 4, adjust then go back and adjust item 1,2,3 again, then 4 again, (repeat) until everything looks proper.

    I mean, it took me quite a while last night, and this was just with the THX Optimizer. [​IMG]

    I was surprised at how much the Color, Tint, Birghtness, and Picture (contrast) effected each other. Nothing like a CRT base display at all. It looked dang good when I was done though....

    I was surprised to see GAMMA as a user adjustable setting as well. I think I left it at mid, as it had low, high and mid for options.
     
  9. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    You did the Panasonic ... just keep the eye out for this higher end Hitachi ... it is a different beast. [​IMG]

    Regards
     
  10. Bob_Campbell

    Bob_Campbell Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    You wont find the higher end Hitachi at and BB or CC. It is only found at authorized Reps. It also will not be found on the net. Go to http://www.hitachi.us/tv and then to Dealer Locator to find the dealer closest to you. Please look at this tv before you buy any other LCD.

    Bob
     
  11. Keith I

    Keith I FoS

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    I'm wondering why there are no RP LCDs in the 30-40" range. I like the light weight and no burn-in aspect of these units but anything bigger than 40" is too big for my place.

    I currently have a 4.5 year old 47" RPTV and it's taking up way too much space. Maybe as I'm getting older the phrase "bigger means better" doesn't hold as much weight as before (in terms of TV size).
    -
     
  12. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    LCD's less than 42" tend to be flat panel type ...

    Same reason we don't see normal CRT RP sets under 40" anymore ...

    Regards
     
  13. Keith I

    Keith I FoS

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    Those LCD flat-panel types in the 30-40" range are too expensive. The CRTs are too heavy (I live on a 2nd floor). And forget plasma due to burn-in. Front projection is also too expensive although the space saved is enormous.

    The smallest LCD RP I saw (42") still had a width larger than my 47" RPTV because the speakers are on the sides.

    I was looking at the 43" Panasonic LCD RP but the width of the unit made me think twice. However, the depth of these units are fantastic.

    Oh well, it is a loss for BOTH me and the manufacturers.
     
  14. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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  15. Keith I

    Keith I FoS

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    Thanks, Ted. The BB page says its screen size is 44" but its width is 40". Huh? Zenith says Circuit City sells their brand. I'll look for it one day whenever I go there. I am NOT going to buy one over the 'net due to shipping costs. There are NO free shipping deals to Hawaii, unfortunately. There are going to be two BBs here in Hawaii soon.
    -
     
  16. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    yeah, that's correct. remember that the screen size is measured *diagonally*, but the actual width is measured end-to-end. [​IMG]

    i work part-time at bb, so i see that tv everyday. because of it's dimensions, it's a pretty popular unit...especially for people with space/fit considerations.
     
  17. Keith I

    Keith I FoS

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    Oh yeah. Duh!!! :b Shame on me for not knowing this...
     
  18. Phil Tomaskovic

    Phil Tomaskovic Supporting Actor

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    the Sony 2005 A10 models will be 43" diagonal (and 50") and they are placing the speakers on the bottom to narrow the width. replacing the WE models. Not sure when it will be out though, may be summer or fall. The A20 will be in 55" and 60, but will still have speakers on the side (replacing the WF models); they are planned for spring according to the press release, but no dealers have any definite info yet.
     
  19. Keith I

    Keith I FoS

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    I am now looking at the Sony 42" model (since the price has dropped probably due to the new A10s, but man is it ugly). The main reason is that Panasonic/Technics service center has left Hawai'i, right behind Toshiba. Sony is still here to stay for now, a "friend" of Hawai'i.

    Question: My first Panasonic 47" RPTV was notorious for being miscalibrated out of the box. The 2.35:1 black bars were not parallel and the 4x3 frame was more like 4x4 (square!). I got a replacement one which was better but not 100%. Can LCD RPs suffer the same thing out of the box? Are they calibrated pretty good from the factory?

    Does anyone here have experience with the Sony 42" LCD RP and/or its calibration?

    Phil: Can the press release be read online? I could not find it on Sony's site.
     
  20. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    On the Sony units, you tend not to get gross geometry errors like that. Usually the image just is not centered properly and the overscan is more than it has to be.

    Decent OOTB ... but could always be improved.

    Professionally calibrated, the set looks very nice ... but some weaknesses of LCD tech cannot be overcome.

    Regards
     

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