Large or small?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Allen Marshall, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a weak subwoofer so do i want to set all my speakers on small or large? (18x25 room) what i think is small means little bass is sent to them and large means some bass is sent to them. If thats true do i actually want bass to go to them cause i remember somebody saying once upon a time that you cant tell where bass is comming from but in saving private ryan and a few others i rather like how when an explosion goes off in the back there's low frequency noises, or atleast i think there are?? another question is since i have a weak subwoofer (gettin a new one soon) do i want the bass set on Mains, Subwoofer or Both?

    My Mains are $600 floorstandings with dual 7"s in both but there not on the floor so basically as far as the person 12ft away is concerned the mains dont have any bass lol. When i try them both at the sametime it seems like the subwoofer and my mains have a different sound to them and it doesnt sound well together but i could just be makin that up. Im basically getting very little bass and im not really askin how to get the best bass out of my system cause i know i cant but im askin for what it's supposed to be set at, also for future reference. Alot of people told me the Bass shouldnt be at +10 but jeez man, whether its on Mains or Subwoofer or BOTH if i turn the Bass to 0 nothing, absolutely nothin out of the sub, does as much bass as a tweeter, i cant help but turn the bass up cause watchin movies without any bass sucks. Im not getting no bass im getting alittle bass. The worst thing is when i go up to tv the ground is vibratin alittle bit and the subwoofer is shakin to all hell, suprised i havent blown it yet and my Mains...well cant tell cause there not touching the ground, but they do sound alot better when they dont have to produce bass, or am i just makin that up to?? My mains can produce more bass then my subwoofer can, hell my bookshelf rears can but there not touchin the ground. Today i raised my rears up so i could hear them over the couch and it sounds alot better, even though my system sucks alittle upgrade like that gets me all excited, when i get a subwoofer i'll probably tear at the eye.
     
  2. Joe_Papeo

    Joe_Papeo Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    What type of speakers/sub do u have?

    Are your speakers towers or bookshelf?
     
  3. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joe i edited my first post [​IMG] as for the sub i dont know what it's called it's small but kinda long so it looks like it's got two 5" or 6"'s in there perhaps maybe even smaller [​IMG] it's a KLH subwoofer, it's a hometheater in a box subwoofer we got like 2 years ago, Kenwood reciever (which i replaced with my yamaha...big mistake) and little KLH satellites which i dont even use, i replaced them with MY Athena Center and floorstandings and my Sharp bookshelves.

    It's a subwoofer where the mains speaker wires go from the fronts into the subwoofer, then a seperate set of wires goes from the subwoofer to the mains in the back of the reciever instead of that plug thing that hooks into subout. So im guessing that means its a 75 watt subwoofer? (my reciever is 75x6).
     
  4. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,683
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    Since 2006
    Real Name:
    Cameron Yee
    Your understanding of the "Small" and "Large" setting is basically correct. For more details, do a search on receiver crossover.

    If you think your mains have better bass reproduction or can handle more bass then I would set them to large. When you finally upgrade to a quality sub you'll want to set to small, to maximize the sub's capability.

    I would also recommend incorporating more punctuation and complete sentences into your posts. Your stream of consciousness thing certainly shows your enthusiasm, but I think you'll probably get more responses if the post is easier to read and follow.
     
  5. Joe_Papeo

    Joe_Papeo Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Turn that KLH sub into firewood.

    Seriously, if you have decent full range fronts, and a little klh sub, then just put that klh in the closet until you can get a new sub.

    Set your mains to large and everything else to small.
     
  6. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are my posts really that bad? I've gotten that form like 100 people. I must be an idiot then cause i didnt know i was doin anything wrong, i feel like i've slipped into another universe where everybody knows how to write a sentence except me. I'd be scared to write a book [​IMG]

    As for the sub i cant throw it out cause my Main is sittin on it [​IMG] to make them both equal height. What would leavin the rears on large do opposed to leavin the mains on large?
     
  7. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Allen, what happened to all of the systems that you were going to get? Didn't you order an SVS?[​IMG] I seem to remember a number of systems that you were getting but Athena floorstanders and Sharp bookshelves weren't in the mix...[​IMG]
     
  8. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joe does that mean i should set the Bass on Mains?
     
  9. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    ohhhh bob bob bob bob bob, what systems? i had my athenas the whole time, the sharp's my brother gave to me and there better bookshelves then my AS-B1's, i assume your talking about the Rockets? Well thats still a possibility but im not gettin new speakers until the end of the year and im leanin towards the B&W Nautilis 802s and the HTM1. I didnt order the svs yet, plans went sour, im gonna order the PB2+ in a week cause i cant afford the B4 with my plans.

    ordering PB2+ this week
    in June or July im gonna get an amp and preamp, havent decided on a combo cause i havent been gettin much help thinkin about the B&K Ref 50 and the Outlaw 770 amp.

    decisions decisions decisions.

    the reason why my speakers are gonna be more expensive then anything else is because a year from now im gonna have a whole lot more money then i do now but i need a subwoofer bad and i need to ditch this reciever as soon as possible to.
     
  10. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2

    I assume Bob is referring to the numerous previous threads you've started about various pieces of equipment, including a number about subwoofers.

    I almost closed this one; however, since it does ask a specific question, I'm leaving it. But Allen, please think very carefully before starting any more threads about your system. Revisit the prior ones; you have enough existing threads on various subjects to cover just about any additional question you might ask.

    M.
     
  11. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,683
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    Since 2006
    Real Name:
    Cameron Yee


    Sorry, I didn't mean to be yet another person to point that out. I just know for myself I'm more inclined to assist someone if the post is clear and concise, so it was pointed out with the good intention of getting you a little more credibility.

    For me a post isn't too dissimilar from a phone call or face-to-face exchange. If someone comes up and speaks without pauses or breaks it's kind of off-putting. I'm a fast reader too, so the constant flow of words makes me a little dizzy [​IMG]

    I do appreciate your enthusiasm though. That's why all of us are here!
     
  12. Paul Spencer

    Paul Spencer Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    When you set speakers to small, in my understanding the bass is rolled off. This will decrease the cone excursion and give you extra dynamic headroom, more output and less distortion. It is a good idea to do this for small bookshelf speakers or typical surround speakers. If you have a decent subwoofer, the output of these speakers in the bass range will probably not be noticed, and it is probably going to be better to set them to small.

    If you have larger speakers capable of good extension and strong bass output at the levels you wish to listen to your movies, then you can benefit from keeping the bass from these speakers. The upper bass range in particular will help with imaging. If you mains are struggling you may wish to set them to small as well to get some more dynamic range.
     
  13. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    For what it's worth, I just switched all my speakers except the center to large. Since I built my subwoofer about eight months ago, I have been running everything small, so I've had plenty of experience in the resulting sound. After listening to only a small selection of my movie collection (all the usual suspects for bass and high output levels), I find the sound MUCH improved. The bass response is much smoother than it was with just the subwoofer, and output levels have increased noticeably. There is also a very palpable sense that the bass is really enveloping you and filling the whole room. Sending bass to only the subwoofer was not bad in that regard, but now the situation has improved. I never had a distinct problem with the subwoofer/satellite blend, but with all speakers set to large it just sounds like the bass is coming from everywhere - and it is I suppose, six speakers encircling my couch. [​IMG]

    Anyhow, the point being, give the large setting a try if your satellite speakers can handle it! I am fortunate in that I have plenty of low frequency output ability from my satellites. The front L/R and surround L/R have strong output down to the low 20Hz range, and the surround back L/R have strong output down to about 40Hz. I'm using two 7" high excursion woofers in each of the front L/R and surround L/R speakers, in a vented enclosure. The surround back speakers have two 5.25" woofers each, also vented. The center has two 6.5" woofers, but it's sealed and rolls off begining about 80-90Hz. All told, my satellites combined can move 90% as much air as my subwoofer, which is no slouch itself.


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  14. Paul Spencer

    Paul Spencer Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    G'day Aaron [​IMG]

    Why do I get a feeling of deja vu here?!!!

    The idea does sound very promising, although I consider it in some cases difficult to implement as it might mean bigger surround speakers.

    My main speakers are transmission line and I have heard them compared to other floorstanders in the way they integrate with subs. Given a shallow rolloff they extend the bass deeper even for the same F3. I recall that the bass from the subwoofer seemed more "connected" to the bass from the TLs.
     
  15. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Paul. Yes, your name does look a bit familiar. [​IMG] I'm on quite a few forums and lists these days, having really gotten back into the stereo/home theater stuff since buying a house last year. As an apartment dweller, I just couldn't appreciate the benefits of all that gear, now I am making up for lost time.

    You're quite right about needing much larger surround speakers if you need the extension, though. It's really no different than subwoofers, coming back down to Hoffman's Iron Law. You have three characteristics of a system used to produce low frequencies - efficiency, box size, and low end extension (F3). Pick any two, and you will have to live with the other. I have picked efficiency and extension, so my boxes are enormous. I have had more than one person come into my house for the first time and remark 'Those are the largest surround speakers I've ever seen!' [​IMG] To me it's really worth it though. In fact, I am thinking of upgrading the surround back speakers to 6.5" woofers instead of the 5.25" woofers I have now, just to get that extra 10 Hz or so of extension.

    There aren't a lot of movies that make use of low bass in the surround channels, but the ones that do, WOW! Granted, my surround back channels have an advantage in that their port is firing through the back of my couch. If you have some large speakers in the back, pop in the Independence Day DVD and play the first five minutes up near reference level (rest of the film is good too for bass in the surrounds). I have been using the Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Matrix series as some of my best test material. However, Independence day stomps all of them for all channel bass. The others tend to keep a lot more bass in the LFE channel, though granted may have higher overall levels in various scenes. Once I finish up the redesign of my surrounds (need to add a port!) things will be even better. Now I have to go through all my movies again, darnit! And I just bought a front projector... guess I won't be getting out of the house much. [​IMG]

    Aaron Gilbert
     

Share This Page