KOYAANISQATSI DVD-A Question

Discussion in 'Music' started by Mark_TB, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Mark_TB

    Mark_TB Second Unit

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    I have a question regarding the KOYAANISQATSI DVD-A that I hope someone here can answer. The packaging clearly states that it has surround AND stereo high-resolution tracks, but my player only presents the menu for the surround tracks.

    Is anyone here able to access stereo tracks on their copy, or is the disc actually surround only?

    I also have the same situation with Emerson, Lake and Palmer's BRAIN SALAD SURGERY.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Trippy. What kind of DVD-A player do you have?
     
  3. Mark_TB

    Mark_TB Second Unit

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    Hi, Paul. I have a Harman Kardon DVD-47. Since my initial post, I've tried these two discs out on a Pioneer DV-588A and had the same results. I also found a comment elsewhere online about the ELP disc having ONLY a surround track, so I'm inclined to think that the "problem" is with the discs themselves.

    I'm just surprised no one else has seemed to notice.

    Mark
     
  4. Chris Gerhard

    Chris Gerhard Screenwriter

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    I have "Brain Salad Surgery" and the Pioneer DV-588A and couldn't access the DVD-A stereo either, don't think it is on the disc although the case sure seems to indicate it should be. I can play the videos in 48kHz/16-Bit LPCM stereo or Dolby Digital 5.1. Maybe the only "advanced" stereo on the disc is the stereo track for the videos. I don't think the disc indicates high resolution stereo, only "advanced" stereo.

    Chris
     
  5. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    I don't think I've ever seen the term "high resolution" on any Rhino/Warner DVD-A. They I think always refer to the high rez tracks as "Advanced Resolution Surround Sound" or "Advanced Resolution Stereo."

    Curious that Stuart Robinson's reviews of neither title mentions missing stereo tracks:

    http://www.highfidelityreview.com/re...wnumber=633653

    http://www.highfidelityreview.com/re...ewnumber=41688

    Just to be clear: you are at the "top menu" and the words "Stereo Playlist" (or some variant thereof) don't even appear on your display, or the stereo option is there and you can't select it?

    (Pio 563A owner here.)
     
  6. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    (Edited last para of previous post to correct mistaken reference to surround when I meant stereo.)
     
  7. Chris Gerhard

    Chris Gerhard Screenwriter

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    Stereo playlist only for the DVD-V menu. The DVD-A menu only has the surround option.

    Chris
     
  8. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Chris, I'm a little confused by your referring to a "DVD-V menu" in your post above. Do you have a second DVD player that does not support DVD-A? If you have a 588, it's my understanding that you will not be seeing any 'DVD-V menus' because that player supports DVD-A.

    Forgive me if this is something you're already well aware of and I'm just misunderstanding but, the way I've seen it work on every Warner (and Capitol) DVD-A title I have is that if you put the disc in a DVD-A player, your top menu shows the high rez options. If you put the disc in a DVD-V player, you don't see that menu but instead see a menu with whatever lossy options the content provider chose to include, such as Dolby Digital and/or DTS.

    Sorry this does not directly address your query, Mark, but I think it might be indirectly related.
     
  9. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Ahhh, correction: some of high rez idiosyncratic minutiae is coming back to me. I am wrong about the Capitol titles. I just checked Crowded House, Nick Of Time and Empire and all three of those titles do indeed display the Dolby Dig and DTS audio options when the disc is in a DVD-A player. [Also, Crowded House and Empire (but not Nick Of Time) used PCM encoding for the high rez stereo tracks, so on those two you can actually play back the high rez stereo (but not surround) on a DVD-V player.]

    But I'm fairly certain none of my Warner titles are authored this way.
     
  10. Chris Gerhard

    Chris Gerhard Screenwriter

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    I can and did switch the DV-588A to be a DVD-V player, it is an option in the menu and it then defaults to the DVD-V menu. If I play the disc in the DV-588A as a DVD-A player the only thing I see for the album is surround. It will allow me to play the videos in 48kHz/16-Bit LPCM stereo, but not the studio album, just the live videos. I can not figure out how to play the studio album in stereo.

    Chris
     
  11. ChristopherDAC

    ChristopherDAC Producer

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    To be clear, are you playing the videos in "DVD-A mode"? If so, are you sure you haven't got the DVD-V and DVD-A modes reversed? I know it sounds a strange question, but, since DVD-V supports 16-48 stereo PCM, unless you're absolutely certain the surround mix you're playing back is MLP, you could conceivably be in DVD-V mode. What do you get when playing back the stereo album from the "DVD-V menu" you accessed? DD2.0?
     
  12. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    I surmise that the "DVD Playback Mode" in "Initial Settings" on the 563 is similar to that of the 588. My manual reads: "Some DVD-Audio discs contain DVD-Video content in addition to the DVD-Audio. Set to DVD-Video to play a DVD-Audio disc as if it were a DVD-Video disc. Note that in this case only the DVD-Video part of the disc will play."

    ChristopherDAC, it's my understanding he's not seeing any stereo choice in the DVD-V menu, yes Chris?

    Is it possible that the DVD-A stereo track has been misflagged as DVD-V content such that some players won't "see" it in DVD-A mode and can't play it in DVD-V mode?
     
  13. Mark_TB

    Mark_TB Second Unit

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    Hi, me again. Yes, these discs called their DVD-A tracks "Advanced Resolution," not "High Resolution." The cases for both discs clearly state "Advanced Resolution Stereo" in addition to the "Advanced Resolution Surround Sound."

    My HK DVD-47 automatically plays ONLY the DVD-A tracks -- I have no way to access the DVD-V content. As I said before, it goes directly to the surround menu.

    The old Pioneer DV-588A does let me select between DVD-A and DVD-V, but again, no "Advanced Resolution Stereo" menu presents itself.

    Christopher_G, thanks for checking your ELP disc. Anyone else have this or KOYAANISQATSI?

    I honestly believe that these two discs do not have DVD-A stereo tracks, but I can't believe I'm the first person to notice it.

    Mark
     
  14. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    I find that difficult to believe as well. It wouldn't be the first time that authoring errors created issues with DVD-A discs. I've e-mailed Stuart Robinson to see if he can confirm that the tracks are there.
     
  15. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Mark:

    Turns out HFR also has a sister discussion forum site where you might post for more possible feedback.

    http://www.smr-forums.com/
     
  16. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    I stand corrected: according to the speedy reply of HFR's Stuart Robinson, there are no stereo tracks on these DVD-As. Here's reply:

    Neither of the discs you mention have dedicated two-channel high resolution tracks even though the packaging indicates that they should (it is in error in both cases). You'll notice that on the review pages our specification boxes only list the 3/2.1 mixes and I've just double-checked myself on a couple of players.

    You can see menu captures here:

    http://www.highfidelityreview.com/re...ewnumber=41688

    ...and here.

    http://www.highfidelityreview.com/re...wnumber=633653


    "Mischief managed."
     
  17. Mark_TB

    Mark_TB Second Unit

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    Thanks for your efforts, Paul -- I guess that answers that. I'm surprised that this information hasn't been better disseminated. Not disappointed, though, since the surround tracks still sound great. (I'm starting to wonder how many people even bother with the stereo tracks.)

    Also, thanks to everyone else who contributed! Very helpful.

    Mark
     
  18. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

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    When a dvd-audio is authored, it can specify that the stereo channels derive from a downmix of the 5.1 mix, which would allow more room on the discs for other things (eliminating the LPCM stereo or MLP stereo track). Maybe that's the case for these discs? Some players may have trouble with this type of authoring.
     
  19. Chris Gerhard

    Chris Gerhard Screenwriter

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    There is no disc menu option for the selection of stereo on the ELP disc. I think any player can downmix the surround to stereo. With the DV-588A:

    Home Menu>Initial Settings>Speakers>Audio Output Mode>Stereo

    And the player will play stereo downmixed from the surround track.

    Chris
     
  20. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    DVD-A downmixing is akin to DVD-V downmixing--a strange process for which no reviewer I've ever read has seen a white paper or other detailed explanation of what the process technically entails. Since DVD-V downmixing involves complete elimination of the LFE, I would think that DVD-A downmixing is probably anathema to the concept of high resolution audio in the first place.

    Indeed, in a follow up e-mail, Stu Robinson said "Multi-channel DVD-Audio discs can still be replayed in stereo, but the player is responsible for creating a downmix and the result often sounds quite odd."
     

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