Klipsch a low end speaker?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ryan Cruz, May 6, 2002.

  1. Ryan Cruz

    Ryan Cruz Stunt Coordinator

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    While browsing through some of the replies in the other thread, one pointed to the avsforum, to a thread in which people were talking about Klipsch being low-end, poorly constructed, and worse, the next Bose!!!!
    Now I'm actually considering RF-3, or RF-7's so tell me, should I really but these? Many years ago I fell into the Bose marketing scam. Now I really wouldn't want to do that all over again. [​IMG]
     
  2. Ryan Cruz

    Ryan Cruz Stunt Coordinator

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    I mean "buy" these [​IMG]
     
  3. ToddJoseph

    ToddJoseph Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan,

    I have read all of your threads regarding speakers. Rule of thumb, don't buy any speakers unless you can hear them first. Lastly, Im a huge Klipsch fan, and whatever has been said about them can be said about any speaker manufacturer. I would never trade my klipsch's in for anything else.... Like anything in the world, everything is subjective
     
  4. Kevin McCurdy

    Kevin McCurdy Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan,

    Let your ears and budget be the deciding factor on your purchase. If you like Klipsch and they're within your budget then buy them, don't let a few comments prevent you from buying what you like.

    I listened to alot of different speakers within my price range before I bought Klipsch. I preferred their sound over the others. I constantly see people remarking on their design and quality. I've had mine for over 2 years now and have had no problems. I've purchased my RC-7 on-line and had it shipped UPS from Nevada and it was in perfect condition when I received it.
     
  5. James Zos

    James Zos Supporting Actor

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    I have the bookshelf version of the RF-3, the RB-5, and in my relatively uninformed opinion I think its a pretty nice speaker. Definitley produces a sharper sound than many other speakers, whether you like that or not is up to individual taste. Some people don't like it. I can't say I'll stick with Klipsch forever, but they are no where near as bad as Bose.

    Whatever you do--buy online. You'll save several hundred dollars that way. And don't buy a Klipsch sub, because there are better subs for the money.
     
  6. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    On the Klipsch board, there was a discussion in response to the referred to thread. Here is an administrator's response. Of course, take it for what it's worth. All I'll say is that I've owned Klipsch speakers for years and love their sound. I've never seen any quality differences between my Klipsch and other brands I own or have owned with the exception of the grill attachment pegs which are really, in my opinion, flimsy.

    Topic: RF-7: Quality or not?

    BobG

    Administrator

    Posts: 2135

    From: Indianapolis, IN

    Registered: Jun 1999

    posted 04-26-2002 03:42 PM

    Very interesting thread, but needs to be brought down to earth with a few facts.

    "1. The baffle was attached with no fasteners at all. None. Nada. There was a half-as*ed bead of glue on the lower part where the baffle meets the cabinet. As evidence of the poor glue-job, the baffle came off without ripping the fiberboard on the cabinet or the veneer on the baffle. There was very little sealant (silicon around the baffle to prevent air leaks."

    Kipsch builds several hundred thousand speakers a year. We do it in a price/value ratio that is intended to address the vast majority of the market. When we have a failure, we are not hesitant to admit it- as in the case of our glue problems with some Legend series models. This bulletin board provides much greater opportunity for comment than is available to the customers of most consumer brands and we hear it when we fail. That's good, we want to know. The construction

    techniques we choose are all selected to maximize value and provide top performance for the price. The Heresy's that Crash827 now loves use virtually identical construction techniques as do the RF-7's.

    "2. The bracing in the cabinet was minimal with a 3/4" brace about 2" long in each corner (as I recall) and a center arched bracing made of the same fiberboard."

    The cabinet bracing employed in the RF-7 and in the majority of Klipsch models is not designed to deliver a cabinet that is completely non-resonant. The techniques are well known but 99.9% of our customers would not be willing to pay the increas in price for the resulting increase in performance. How many of you have carbon/ceramic brakes on your vehicle? They are better than the standard metal parts and might even save your life! Oh yeah, they cost a bunch more...

    "3. The much tauted "Monster" cable inside was laughable. It was average 18 gauge twisted copper cable. The crimp connectors were loosely connected to the drivers and would be prone to falling off without much jarring."

    Bigger wire is not necessarily better wire. The Z series Monster Cable used internally on Reference Series is highly engineered for the task. Making it better Looking has nothing to do with making it better Sounding. The crimp connectors would be nice to replace with silver solder but that is not possible at these production quantities and price.

    "4. The damping in the cabinet did not appear to be uniform between the two speakers. It's as if someone folded some carpet padding and stuffed wherever it fit. I would think it possible for some of the padding to get in the way of the airflow to the port."

    The damping material is not critical regarding placement in the cabinet.The amount of material and choice of material is important.

    "5. The feet were cheap plastic that appeared to be made by Hasbro. My set didn't come with carpet spikes and I don't know if they are available, but I hope they are better than the feet."

    Want nice metal feet? Want to pay for them? I doubt it, especially when it would not make an audible change in the output. The plastic used was chosen for very specific performance attributes.

    "6. The veneer is the sort of veneer you would find on any low-fi or mid-fi speaker in the market. Not terrible, but nothing to brag about."

    Don't see too many wood veneer speakers in the "low-fi" market. Wood veneer enhances the beauty of the speaker and will never be a problem unless you do something inappropriate. Not meant to allow you to sand it down etc. It's the same thickness used on quality furniture.

    Interesting that little was said about the driver content or the sound of the speakers. Klipsch packs more content into the parts that count than our key competitors. Bigger magnets, better cone and dome materials, crossover components etc. Who else in the price range is using a quality, branded wire? Anybody?? Anybody? Who else gives you the benefits of horn loading (a more expensive technology)? Anybody??

    Anybody?? Who else provides the efficiency, dynamic range or emotional impact anywhere near the price? Anybody??

    I fear Crash has a distorted perspective of price. It's great he's been able to buy KSP-400's and Heresy's at a deep discount via the used market. I also think it's great that he buys at 60% off. But offering that buying advice is simply bad advice. Doesn't fly.

    Ultimately, you get what you pay for. Want rock solid cabinets with veneer that's twice as thick as Klipsch? It's out there, but not at anywhere near the price of Klipsch. Want solid metal feet and grilles you cannot break with a pliers? That may be out there as well, I don't know. I do know that if you compare Klipsch to similarly priced brands,

    we offer more sound for the money. We are quite comfortable with that and so are the hundreds of thousands of customers who buy our products every year. That is why we are second in the US market and the envy of most competitors. Are we perfect, no way no how, but we don't have much to say in response to paranoia and ranting. Sorry for that harsh characterization but it's true.
     
  7. Cam S

    Cam S Screenwriter

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    BobG summed it up nicely. I own Klipsch for many of those reasons stated above.
     
  8. Jim_C

    Jim_C Cinematographer

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    Don't let that thread at AVS steer you the wrong way. They're worshippers of Diva over there and tend to knock other brands. To equate Klipsch with Bose indicates either a lack of understanding about the two speaker lines or an extreme biased against Klipsch. Most everyone on the net that's involved with HT knows the poor reputation of Bose. Anyone that makes the claim that Klipsch is at that level is not thinking. Perhaps if Klipsch charged 2-3 times what their speakers are worth and didn't bother to try to reproduce the entire frequency response then they would be like Bose.

    Yes, I'm biased. I own and love Klipsch. However, anyone can see that equating Klipsch to Bose is absurd.

    BTW, I don't really agree with James Zos about buying online. I'm one that believes in the warranty that you get from a B+M. Yes, you'll save money but if you have any problems you need to ship them back to where you got them from for service. That's a hassle. Plus, you've got the possibility of shipping damage to deal with.

    Consider buying online to save money but make sure that you are comfortable with consequences of a speaker problem.
     
  9. RickBlacker

    RickBlacker Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan
    I just want to put my 2 cents here. I just purchased my home theater.
    Receiver: Harman Kardon AVR 520
    Speaker: Klipsch R7 series all the way around
    Sub: RSW-12.
    Well, I can tell you first hand that this system is truly AWESOME. I by far am no audiofile junkie that knows all the lingo and all the techno talk. I am just someone who enjoys great sound. I can tell you right now, I will be staying with Klipsch. Don't let anyone fool you with numbers and what not. What matters is the resulting sound and let me tell you the R7 series is incredible. Very crip Very clean.
    Bose? Na, these are in no way close to bose. Klipsch simply blows the doors off Bose.
     
  10. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Hey Rick,

    Welcome to Home Theater Forum.

    And yes, comparing Bose to Klipsch is not only laughable, it's stupid.
     
  11. Walt N

    Walt N Second Unit

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    "Don't let that thread at AVS steer you the wrong way. They're worshippers of Diva over there and tend to knock other brands."

    I looked at the AVS thread in question and for the record, the Klipsch = Bose remark was not from a Diva owner. The one Diva owner who did responded on the thread was unsupportive of that comment.

    IMO Klipsch is an excellent value and they perform to their design goals very well. Klipsch = Bose? That remark struck me as a troll from a young enthusiast who probably has little or no experience with the product and is therefore not worthy of anyone's consideration.
     
  12. Cam S

    Cam S Screenwriter

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    Who, Bob A?
     
  13. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    Well here's a viewpoint from a horn fan of over 30 years experience and who's owned 2 sets of LaScalas and 1 set of Cornwalls. Klipsch are good speakers but the company is not what it used to be. When old PWK (Paul W. Klipsch, who died yesterday by the way, aged 98) ran the company things were different and the company had an emphasis on very high quality speakers like the KHorn, Belle, LaScala, Cornwall and Heresey. Before he sold the company PWK was branching into cheaper products but the empahasis was still on the flagships. But when PWK sold the company to his cousin Fred, The Hoosier Garage Door King, things started changing to an emphasis on price point and big numbers. Products have appeared and disappeared at a dizzying rate and quality of construction has suffered. Along the way the company's guiding philosophy, that horn loaded speakers are superior, was dropped by the wayside. Making fully horn-loaded or midrange on-up horn loaded speakers is a more costly business than running a cone up to 2200hz and then using a horn only as a tweeter such as with the RF series speakers, speakers that replaced the far superior (and more expensive to make) Legend line as the Klipsch flagship. For over a year the Heritage line, the fine "real" Klipsches that were designed by PWK were out of production as the company concentrated on heavily compromised speakers that could be sold in large numbers. That's the thing, compromises. The speakers this company made once had few compromises, the ones made today are heavily compromised. This is good business but it doesn't make for great speakers, good ones yes but not great ones. Where once the Klipsch company made state-of-the-art contenders in the world of horn speakers today no hornies I know take the company's new products seriously, though the old products like the KHorn still have a strong following. Of course even the "real" Klipsches aren't as good as an Altec VOT or JBL horn rig, much less an Edgar, but that's another story. :)
     
  14. BertFalasco

    BertFalasco Supporting Actor

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    Ryan, I have the SF-1s (SF-2s no different just an extra 6.5 on each. No need if SVS is near....sadly one isn't [​IMG] but maybe soon!! [​IMG] ) along with the RC-3II center. The shite is aw3s0m3!!!!!
    The sound is crisp and if you're looking for strong vocals... *TweeTers Galore*
    -Bert
    Hope that helps.
     
  15. matthew_rm

    matthew_rm Second Unit

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    Tom is right about the way Klipsch went. But remember that Klipsch may not be what they used to be, they are still better then many being made today. In the the world of mid-fi consumer products, Klipsch rocks.
     
  16. Jim_C

    Jim_C Cinematographer

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    >>"Don't let that thread at AVS steer you the wrong way. They're worshippers of Diva over there and tend to knock other brands."

    I looked at the AVS thread in question and for the record, the Klipsch = Bose remark was not from a Diva owner. The one Diva owner who did responded on the thread was unsupportive of that comment.

    IMO Klipsch is an excellent value and they perform to their design goals very well. Klipsch = Bose? That remark struck me as a troll from a young enthusiast who probably has little or no experience with the product and is therefore not worthy of anyone's consideration.
     
  17. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    Actually , I hear many of the guys at SVS saying very nice things about klipsch and it seems that most people here respect their opinion.......I find it to be great fun to sit down the "audio snobs" that come into my store (the ones who turn their noses up at Klipsch) and do blind speaker comparisons with them...they really go for the Klipsch (yes, even when the listening sessions go on for hours)...

    God bless Paul Klipsch, may he rest in peace...
     
  18. Steve K.H.

    Steve K.H. Supporting Actor

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    Klipsch is the equivalent of Bose?

    Well Bose really got their act together then!

    or...

    The definition of ignorance has hit new bounds.

    Seconds on the Rest in Peace to Mr. K.
     
  19. Ryan Cruz

    Ryan Cruz Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks to everyone for all your replies. Actually, I HAVE been listening to practically every brand that is being sold in my place (Ilive in Manila). By far the best price-performance ratio I found was Klipsch. I even regret getting my PSB Alpha C, and the only reason why I got them was because that was before I found out there was someone carrying Klipsch over here. If not I would have gotten the RF-3's which sound so much better.
    I can't say I'm an audiophile, but an audio enthusiast. I'm not 100% sure if I can trust my judgments for speakers, although I know what I want and I have a very good overall judgment. I just needed to know from everyone what you think, since you don't really listen to the seller, but the users right? [​IMG]
     
  20. Axel Wolfe

    Axel Wolfe Auditioning

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    I have a full klipsch system, ledgend seres klf30 for the mains, klf c-7 centre, and ksp-s6 for surounds, 'front rear, and center rear.' i spent almost a year looking and for my price range i belive that the klipsch was the best for my money.

    axel
     

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