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Sam Posten

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What amazes me is the number of people who will drop $25K on a projector, but won't spend more than $1K or 2 on speakers and insist on powering the system with a receiver.

Yeah, @Sam Posten , I'm looking at you. :eek:

invitation is always open for you to come to MD and watch a movie and tell me it’s anything less than top notch :)
 

John Dirk

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I think these projectors are going to sell like hot cakes to the projector enthusiasts. These seem to have *everything*: native 4K, high contrast, laser source, glass lens, 48 Gbps inputs.
We have a great community here and I love to hear how different folks react to announcements like this. The feedback can be invaluable. For me this means be patient just a little longer and we may see a straightforward 4K projector with great optics and 3D in the 5K range from JVC. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any projector priced at 10K "selling like hotcakes."

These are native 4K.
Right but the 8K E-Shift technology adds extra cost and complexity, which [theoretically] could affect reliability.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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I said $5K-ish before, but actually, since we're talking laser models that won't need bulb replacements, I suppose I might be fine w/ bumping that up some to $6K-ish or so...

_Man_
 

Sam Posten

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ManW_TheUncool

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You couldn’t buy the glass in the lens of this thing if it was for a camera for less than $3500

How do you know that?

The NZ7/NZ8 both use a 65mm diameter lens w/ 2x zoom... and the DILA chips used aren't that big at 0.69" each (and the light going thru the lens would presumably have all 3 aligned and focused into roughly that size or maybe somewhat bigger perhaps, which should be smaller than a 35mm image light circle going thru a 35mm lens). And there's no talk of using any particularly special glass nor coatings -- just using all glass is clearly the touted quality. And there's no indication of fixed aperture size (or light passing capability), so as usual, one should likely assume variable aperture.

And we're talking glass needed for 8K max resolution, not as much as 5-6x that in still photography for 35mm FF (or ~3x that for APS-C crop).

A 35mm (or even mirrorless) lens w/ those attributes wouldn't actually cost much at all. Don't be silly...

_Man_
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Having said that, I'm sure a lens that costs JVC say $300-400 (pre-mark-up) to make and use in a projector retailing at $10K (and won't exactly sell like hot cakes) wouldn't be insignificant.

Of course, that guesstimate is just a very rough, back-of-the-napkin kind and could be very substantially off, but there's no way they're putting glass equiv to a modern $3.5K camera lens on a $10K projector. And if they really did that, you can bet they'd be touting it much more than they're doing -- heck, they're not even touting the 100mm lens on the $25K NZ9 all that much...

_Man_
 

DaveF

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Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any projector priced at 10K "selling like hotcakes."
.
Relative to the market that is into this class of projector, I think these are going to be very popular. People have been wanting very much a laser based, high-output projector from JVC.

These aren’t perfect: The ”perfect” system will be RGB lasers. And I’ve got growing concerns that the effective price increase from 5/7/9 to 7/8/9 is more like 80% (due to comparable contrast ratios).
 

DaveF

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I'm watching the videos. This one is really great (and as Sam might recall, I'm super picky about watching YT videos this long. :) )

Of note:
JVC's HDMI sync time is finally getting better! About 5 seconds on the Z line compared to the 15+ seconds on the former models.

NZ7 looks better in all regards than the NX7, color, brightness, and contrast.

(Caveat, this is a retailer that JVC trusts to give a preview unit to, and that presumably want to sell hardware to buyers. But still, it's encouraging. I hope to get real reviews sooner than later.)
 

Sam Posten

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How do you know that?

1630630014949.png
 

Sam Posten

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:(

It’s getting more complicated: the NZ7 is looking more like the NX5 equivalent based on contrast ratio: They’re both 40k:1 native. The NX7 is 80k:1, as is the NZ8.

This is a real buzz kill. Will have to keep reading and watch more videos.

my RS540 claims a 130k native contrast ratio. Was the measurement different or is going to a 40k or 80k really acccurate?

1630631012295.png
 

ManW_TheUncool

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That doesn't answer the question.

How do you know it's actually comparable to a $3.5K modern camera lens?

Look at it another way. IF JVC's making such glass and essentially hiding them in their uber expensive PJs that few people will buy, they're probably doing it all wrong and should at least be selling some glass to the much bigger camera lenses market (on top of these PJs).

I do see that the 100mm lens of the NZ9 does use 5 "special low-dispersion" elements (at one of the other links)... while the 65mm lens doesn't specify. But what exactly do they mean by "special low-dispersion"? Are they simply low-dispersion, but called "special" for marketing speak (because even regular LD is not that common for PJs, and there are 5 of them) or are they actually comparable to ED elements (from Nikon for instance)? Really doubt it's the latter, especially since they only need it for 8K-max rez although sounds like the lens-shift mechanism probably uses up a good chunk of the lens diameter for best results.

Anyway, low-dispersion elements are no big deal at all in the modern camera lens world. There are tons of other advanced glass design features touted by modern camera lens makers that are missing from JVC's marketing speak.

And besides the much lower rez requirements of HT, the contrast/DR requirements of HT, especially via PJs, are probably much lower than for camera lenses that need to handle a vastly greater DR (probably at least an order of magnitude greater). There's really no reason to imagine a PJ's lens need be comparable to a very expensive, pro/elite level, modern camera lens -- there's really no such requirements for that near as I can tell, and JVC doesn't tout these lenses that way at all.

_Man_
 

John Dirk

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Relative to the market that is into this class of projector, I think these are going to be very popular. People have been wanting very much a laser based, high-output projector from JVC.
I'm one of those people but I'm also capping what I'm willing to pay at about 5K. Maybe I'm being unrealistic but this announcement suggests a year or so of patience might allow that to happen due to typical tech trickle down.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Simply by the number of glass elements and groups

Ummm... that's probably not how these things work.

Granted, having more probably means higher complexity that drive up costs all else being equal, but all else probably isn't equal. For instance, the actual elements used do not seem as high grade as those in expensive modern camera lenses. And of course, these PJ lenses don't do high speed, silent, auto-focus nor optical IS (though some expensive-ish mirrorless lenses don't either) and aren't designed to deal w/ lens flare and such.

Point is there is no real reason to think any PJ lens quality would rival elite pro level camera lenses that cost $3.5K (or even $2K)... except maybe in the sheer physical size dept in the case of that 100mm lens, but size isn't everything -- and all other aspects of that lens seem rather ho-hum compared to pro level camera lenses, including the actual application requirements.

_Man_
 

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