Jvc 52" D-ila

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Phil O, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just bought this HDTV a week or so ago. This is my first foray into HDTV and I'm a little confused about how to best set it up for the best picture. I bought the 250 GB TIVO/DirecTV Receiver as well.

    Currently, I have the HDMI hooked up between TIVO and TV. I also have the S-Video hooked up on Video-1 with regular RCA cables for sound.

    The hi-def material(for the few channels there are) looks pretty damn good. The anamorphic DVDs look good as well. However, the standard material looks pretty damn bad no matter what. Standard material looks all grainy no matter what I do or how I hook up the TV.

    So, is there a best way to hook up for standard material on these DILA sets? The TV has what is known as full and panel mode. I assume the full just stretches the picture to fit the screen introducing "artifacts"(or whatever) in the process. Panel mode leaves the picture at the right ratio for standard but it is still not a great picture. The "aspect" settings, such as cinema, panorama, full, and regular...umm...regular seems to be the best as I assume it doesn't reformat the picture at all.

    Then, there is the TIVO. It is set to output to a 16 x 9 TV and, for standard material, the best picture comes at 480i. I'm a little confused as to what this setting should be for hi-def material given the TV converts all hi-def material to 720p. Should it be set to 720p or 1080i? Does it matter?

    Don't get me started on the brightness, detail, and contrast settings? Let's just say I have them turned down into the negative. I've read about the DILAs having poor black levels and too much brightness but, what do I know, I'm just an average Joe with a new TV. I suspect I could learn alot from a calibrationist if I pay one to come out but I've read DILAs don't need much in the way of service menu calibrations. Don't know if this is true or not?

    Does anyone who owns this TV or not have any suggestions on how to properly configure this TV in any way that could help me out? I guess the best course for standard material is to avoid this TV altogether and stick with the other 4x3 TV. I didn't expect the standard material to look as grainy, snowy, or whatever you want to call it...as it does. I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

    Just looking for some knowledgable advice as I'm a hi-def TV noobie owner who knows minimal squat obviously.

    thanks, Phil
     
  2. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    8,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hi phil -

    just some random thoughts here.

    first, you got a really decent tv...so don't outguess yourself here. the dilas are known to be crazy bright, but they truly have a very smooth picture (due to the tight pixel density).

    you didn't say if you're running your system through a ht or not, but it doesn't sound like it. in any case, you should be watching *all* your channels (hd & sd) through the hdmi connection ... there is no need to use the s-video. not sure why you're doing that.

    the hd tivo box outputs everything at 1080i or 720p -- you can toggle the mode through the remote or the front panel. just choose whichever mode looks better to you. on my setup, i run it at 720p. like you noted, your tv will adjust everything it gets to its native resolution anyway -- you're just trying to find the right "balance".

    sd material is not going to look as good as hd material ... period. it's one of the "drawbacks" of watching sd on a hd set. everyone goes through this. however, because of your hd tivo box, you really should be getting at least a semi-decent pic on your sd stuff.

    a calibration dvd will certainly help ... read this link for good info: calibration dvd info

    hopefully that helps some ... if you have any other questions just let me know.
     
  3. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Ted,

    Thanks for the reply. Yea...I was just experimenting around with other video inputs to see if it helped the SD quality. I'll gladly trade all those audio and video cables for HDMI. I'm using the HDMI cable that came with the Tivo receiver. All the salesmen will swear that you should run out and buy a Monster HDMI cable for $100+ but I'm skeptical. I've read it makes zero difference from other people. Any thoughts there?

    I just moved into a new house and am setting up a theater room. I haven't hook up my HT into the system yet unfortunately. I thought I would wait for the DirecTV installers to come out and finishing dropping me some new outlets for the two needed for TIVO plus setting up my satellite. Plus, I just today bought an omnimount center channel bracket for the TV...which just barely fits.

    The other thing is the free stand that came with the TV has a middle glass shelf and my(or probably any) A/V receivers won't fit on either shelf. I think I'm going to have to move the glass shelf up drilling some new holes or something...another thing to do before I can position my A/V receiver. Don't even get me started on the in-wall wiring and such...sigh.

    As far as getting a professional calibration done, would this be in my best interest for this type of set after a 100 hour break-in on the set? I assume it can do nothing but improve my knowledge and the picture.

    Also, if you own this set, then have you ever thought about removing the protective screen. I would think the picture would be better without the screen. The screen seems to add a little fuzzines to the picture if you ask me.

    Per the 720p or 1080i, if there is a difference...then my eyes don't see it. I'm kind of confused as to why this feature isn't auto...like detect what kind of video signal it is and set appropriately? I guess that can't happen for some unknown technical reason.

    I have Video Essentials and I should probably run through it again but, the first time, I didn't see anything really that out of whack. I'll check out that link...looks like a lot of good info that can only help me.

    Please comment on anything else if you have input.

    thanks, Phil
     
  4. John Whittle

    John Whittle Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    In a sense the set does do that, it takes everything and shows it at 720P so if you toggle the tivo box you're just watching the tivo convert and the set convert -- or not -- depending on where the switch is.

    One note of SD, you have seen HD so that's going to make it hard to get a "good" SD picture since there just isn't as much stuff there.

    I tend to agree on cables, in most cases you're just paying for their advertising, store displays and mark-ups. Equipment sales are so cut throat that it's the "accessories" that provide the "fat". You might see a difference in a lab with scopes and test equipment, but few of us can see the difference in the real world and the source material is going to vary anyway!

    I've been looking at these JVC sets since it's time to retire my warhorse (a JVC NV-55BX4) which is 11 years old and is suffering from some noise in the aspect converter card which JVC doesn't sell anymore.

    You might have to "turn down" some setting for SD as well such as detail. Any defect in the signal is just going to be magnified more.

    BTW it would be interesting to see if you can see a difference from your DVD player between SVideo, Component or HDMI (if your player has it). Personally on my FP I can see a big difference between SVideo and Component but don't have DVI/HDMI source to feed the projector.

    John
     
  5. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    8,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    this is actually a very simply answer. simply put, go buy and see for yourself. [​IMG] if you notice a difference, the answer is obvious. personally, i think a good mid-level cable (try the AR brand) will work fine ... i don't see any advantage to buying monster or boutique cable. but that's just me.

    one thing to keep in the back of your head while you're doing all this. you've already noticed how good the pictue is on hd or dvd ... so you *know* the tv is working good and can deliver a nice picture. if it's just the sd picture that drives you crazy, just try to keep that in mind.

    in other words, it's not the tv's fault. [​IMG]
     
  6. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    12,216
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Real Name:
    Parker
    Phil:

    I picked up an DVI to HDMI cable from one of our vendors Blue Jeans Cable and it works without a hitch and at 1/3 the cost of the same thing by Monster it is a no brainer to pick up.

    Parker
     
  7. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Parker,

    Are you hinting that I should at least replace the HDMI cable that came with the TIVO with a least a step-up in quality even if not Monster? I'm thinking the difference may be so subtle it won't be noticable but that's kind of why I posed the question...cause I'm not clear if there is a real benefit or it just reads good on paper.

    Meanwhile, the DirecTV guy came out and set up every room in my house. He had to do a few drops and he was bustin his butt in the HOT attic in TX heat. So, he installed a powered multiswitch. The only bad part is, afterwards, I still cannot get all the local hi-def antenna channels. I called RadioShack ready to buy an amplifier or new indoor antenna over my boom antenna in the attic. So, the guy there told me I should point it SE toward the towers and I shouldn't have any problem picking up all the channels. Well, after many sweaty visits to the attic to adjust the antenna, I can't get some stations to come in with a good signal. Some channels come in...some don't while also having weak or no signal strength. Maybe the RadioShack guy should have actually sold me something to boost the signal...eh? Actually, I probably need another person to watch the channels while I position the antenna. Its kind of hard to do solo. But, kudos to the DirecTV installer. One young looking fellow got a lot done in a short amount of time. After watching two installers from my cable company do a botch job, he makes them look like mice instead of men. I had to pay a little for some of that but...it needed to be done. Too bad I can't get the antenna to work out for me.

    Anyone have any suggestions about how to go about boosting a signal on a boom antenna in the attic? All that work and the dang antenna won't do its job. Argh! I've sweated buckets! lol

    Phil
     
  8. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I also just don't get why the standard television has to look all washed out like that in any mode on this TV. For example, if your watching a standard signal of baseball, then the grass and everything appears pixelated...even if you don't stretch the image watching in 480i with panel mode.

    What's weird was I was watching the Cowboys game last night on CBS and some camera angles produced a clean picture while other cameras produced a pixelated looking picture. Was this because they were switching between their hi-def and standard television cameras? I found that strange as hell to, one minute, have a decent picture in 480i. Then, they switch cameras only to go back to this pixelated looking image where you see little crackily looking boxes. Is that what they call wash out?

    I could understand the picture not being as good in standard compared to hi-def. But, does this mean the picture has to look all pixelated and distracting. I guess it is watchable on standard but that really is distracting. I just don't understand why the set can't do standard at least as good as a 4x3 even if it cannot compare to 16x9 hi-def. I guess really don't want you watching standard stuff. Maybe I should have gone with another brand that handles 4x3 standard material better? There's only a few hi-def channels and, most of the time, they just show crap.

    Don't worry...I will live...I guess. [​IMG] lol

    It's not that bad...I just can't tell my brain to stfu about it.
     
  9. John Whittle

    John Whittle Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok this is a bit strange so let's review and make sure the facts are correct:

    1. Your HDTV source produces a good picture
    2. Your DVD produces a good image
    3. Your NTSC source produces a poor image

    Correct so far?

    Now on this set, the setting change depending on whether you're getting aidgital signal or an NATSC signal so we need to know the SOURCE of your signals.

    How is the DVD connected? How is the HDTV connected? How is the NTSC connected?

    Now on NTSC picture settings have you tried "plain vanilla?"

    That is:

    Turn off Digital Noise Clear
    Turn off Color Management
    Turn off Dynamic Gamma
    Turn off Smart Picture
    Turn off or all the way down Detail

    If the source of your NTSC signal is not an over the air antenna, somebody (cable or sat provider) may have altered/helped your NTSC signals to make them fit within a narrower bandwidth than the 6 mz broadcast band--that's what it sounds like when you say you see a "pizelated" wide shot on a baseball game sounds like over compression of an analogue signal to fit a digital slot. These problems might not show up on older analogue small screen sets with lower freqency response in the video channels.

    If the signal is up to spec and you still have trouble, then it may mean a call to JVC.

    John
     
  10. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    DVD - Component
    HD - HDMI (from DirecTV or OTA)
    NTSC - HDMI (from DirecTV)

    I have tried switching all the settings around...turning everything off and turning the detail way down. The NTSC video still leaves a lot to be desired and the picture appears pixelated is the best way I can describe it. Objects in the foreground with focus appear much better than objects in the background...hence, my baseball example. Should the NTSC picture be a clear picture? I have also tried using S-Video on a different input and it didn't appear much better.

    Even when I turn to 480i and panel mode...which should be like a standard 4x3 TV...it looks a little better but it still looks pixelated. I assume if I'm trying to watch NTSC with TIVO set to 720p or 1080i, then this is going to affect the quality of the video to the negative.

    I'm not clear how to tell about the signal specs. Let me just say that some NTSC material looks worse than other NTSC material. The Cowboys game...some camera shots produced a better image than other camera shots...which I found very strange.

    I will try 480i again with all settings off and detail all the way down but I know I've done that as I'm constantly messing with the settings there.

    Your suggestion to call JVC is a good one. They should be able to comment on why it is what it is.This is why I'm also thinking I need to get a professional calibrationist to tweak the set.

    I was under the early impression that this set was magnifying the flaws in the NTSC stuff and that is why it was looking as poor as it is. But, that early impression appears to be wrong. I have nothing to compare to so I really don't know.

    thanks, Phil
     
  11. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh, on my antenna, it is a HDTV TERK 36 antenna. I went to their antenna locator to see which direction it should be pointing in an effort to determine why I cannot get a signal for NBC and ABC? They give a degree location to point to and it appears all the major locations are in the degrees of 142 - 144 for my location. So, my antenna appears to be pointing to the correct location...generally speaking. I guess I will pick up a digital compass to make sure. I'm able to pick up signals for CBS from approximately the same distance as the other networks so I'm unclear why I can't pick up OTA from NBC and ABC.

    When your talking a few degrees, will that really make an impact as to the signals you get? If I'm pointing to 142 degrees, then does that mean I may not get signals at 144 degrees?

    Maybe it's that damn attic install. ARGH! [​IMG]
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes.. a few degrees, even a fraction of an inch can make the difference as to what you get and don't get.


    The NTSC pixelation... How large of a screen are we talking about here?
     
  13. John Whittle

    John Whittle Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    That's your NTSC problem. DirecTV has pixelated your pictures. Try over the air for NTSC (since you get good DVD then you know that the set is displaying it properly). Connect NTSC via the RF connector not HDMI and use the sets tuner for NTSC. You might want to investigate cable if your set is one of the new series that takes the cable card. By the way, if you use the cable card for HDTV, you can get a SD output from the set on the S-Video monitor output that you can connect to a VCR or DVD Recorder to make SD recordings of HD material.

    This is a common problem with getting your NTSC pictures stuffed into a digital pipeline--there is only so much space.

    See what you get over the air. If you don't get over the air, you might want to try cable instead of DirecTV.

    John
     
  14. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    12,216
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Real Name:
    Parker
    Phil:

    I don't think switching the cable will make that much difference. I just didn't want you buying the Monster HDMI when you could get the same results from something at 1/3 the cost. I didn't realize that you already had an HDMI cable and I thought you were looking to buy one.

    I agree with John get a good outside antenna to pick up your local HDTV channels for NTSC. Something to consider might be a good rotor so you can move the antenna without having to get back up into the attic and you can see the improvements while moving the antenna remotely.

    Parker
     
  15. videobruce

    videobruce Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Can you put the antenna on the roof with a rotor (I don't know those model numbers? I only would consider Winegard and Channel Master antennas. Both are still mad ehere and are of very good quality.

    Don't bother with a amp, especially from RipOff Shack. Cheap Chinesse overpriced junk that is easily overloaded and adds noise to the picture. Antenna subjects are covered is depth in many other forums.

    Try;
    http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp
    Just find your lat. & long. and enter it in. Some locations don't seem to get infomation on the stations though, but this site is FAR better than antennaweb!

    BTW, forget those completely overpriced Monster cables. Without a doubt one of the biggest scams in the HD market!
     
  16. Phil O

    Phil O Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Done.

    I'm still hoping to hear some opinions from either professional calibrators out there or anyone who has had calibration done on the DILA sets or other. Is this something I should strongly consider and what are the main benefits of getting it done? Would it help the SD picture?

    thanks,

    Phil
     

Share This Page