Justice League & Batman Beyond (1 Viewer)

[Jim Harvey]

After just announcing "Justice League: Season One," Bruce Timm revealed at Toon Zone that Warner Home Video is planning to start work on the "Justice League: Season Two" DVD set within the next few weeks. However, it looks like WHV may use the fullscreen version of the episodes, a problem since the series was animated in widescreen (meaning the images would be cropped). Timm added that if fans want the episodes in the proper widescreen format, now it the time to write to WHV! Click the link to help!

http://worldsfinestonline.com/jldvd.php

 

[Daniel-M]

I have seen season 2 in both full and wide, and i refuse to buy fullscreen ogf season 2. Just like amovie you can see tht the framing is wrong

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I don't tolerate FS for S1 because JL is a kids show. Au contraire, I'll put S2 up against any grown up show for dialogue, energy, and ideas. It's great TV. I can take S1 in FS because I am not LOSING any information. I would be in S2, so therefore that's the driver.

That said, I want JL on DVD...very badly. I'd like it as the creators intended. I'll e-mail or snail mail or sign petitions or whatever. But I won't go to my guns YET.

Why does WHV care about the ratio? The shows are bought by young men, who prefer WS, so why the stance? Kids could care less.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[John*D]

WIDESCREEN NOW!!! Since I'm too lazy/cheap to mail out a letter I found a place to contact WMV.

http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/main/...er_service.jsp

* choose "HOME VIDEO AND DVD" under the 'this is regarding' option.

 

[Jim Harvey]

Toon Zone News now hasa blurb up about it, with Timm talkin':

http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=7561

We could really use the support of the whole fan/DVD community!

 

[Jonathan_Clarke]

This calls for an online petition!

We'll get a lot more responses that way.

 

[David Podjasek]

Well, I still can't comprehend why people are so accepting of S1 in fullscreen. They just keep saying "I'm not losing picture" over and over like that justifies that it's fine. They don't ever deal with the fact that the framing is essentially wrong and that the original artists created it with widescreen being the intended and preferred format.

I am at least happy that everyone seems to believe that S2 and up NEED to be in widescreen, since it breaks the "I won't loose any picture" rule that seems to be the only consideration point.

I guess I will have to wait and hope for Bluray for the proper presentation. That could take years. :frowning:

EDIT: Changed to correctly state fullscreen intead of widescreen (as Ric points out below)

 

[Ric Easton]

You mean season 1 is not in widescreen, right? If it's not coming out until March, I don't quite get why this is a done deal. Is it too late to change their minds on season 1? If so, here's hoping that they go wide with the rest of it. What a mess!

 

[Rob T]

Season 1 in full frame is tolerable and I'll still get it, but season 2 at 1.33:1 is just a bad idea. As much as I love season 2, I'd have to boycott. I want it in widescreen.

 

[David Podjasek]

Thanks for the correction Ric (LOVE your new Star Trek covers... they just get better and better)!

I get the impression S1 has already been in progress for quite a while now, as Bruce Timm has said that they are almost ready to start extras for S2 now. So it probably is too late for S1... I am still not happy.

 

[David Lambert]

Not necessarily.

 

[Jim Smith]

The chances of Warner getting a change of heart on Season One is next to zero. The fact is most of the fan outrage appears to be at the possiblility of pan scan for Season two not the unmatted transfers on Season One. Around half of the hardcore fanbase seems to prefer unmatted versions and if so many hardcore fans agree with it you get bet an even greater number of casual fans won't care. Season Two is different. Almost the entire fan base seems to be united in getting that on widescreen which I believe should persuade Warner.

 

[David Lambert]

If Warner COULD be persuaded to change their minds on Season 1, and release it in widescreen, would anyone object? Bruce Timm has stated many times that Widescreen is, in effect, OAR and his preferred aspect ratio for the show. So, if Warner can be convinced to change - post announcement, like Disney was with Desperate Housewives - to go with Widescreen instead of Fullscreen, is there anyone who would actually hate that change?

 

[Jim Smith]

I would object. So would lots of fans. Fullscreen is the original aspect ratio. It is the ratio the show was animated. Go to watchtower.com. There are more comparison shots of season one clearly show you miss alot of great info in the widescreen version. If Warner does change there minds on this I will be angry for sure but it won't be enough to boycott but it will be a big dissipointment and I know I am not alone.

 

[John Simon]

I'd completely disagree with that point. How many times have fan raged on these boards when a film shot with an open matte was released in FS instead of WS? It's not a matter of how the content was originally captured, but rather how the creators wanted the content displayed.

In the case of Justice League, the show's creators have clearly stated that the intended aspect ratio was widescreen. Just because there's additional image space does not mean that has to be shown.

With that in mind, I really hope that the WB reverses course and releases the first season in widescreen. But whatever they're final decision on the first season, I'll most likely still buy it. However, if they refuse to release the second season in widescreen (when it's absolutely and undeniably intended for such an aspect ratio), they'll be losing my purchase.

 

[David Lambert]

First off, "Watchtower.com" takes you to a religious website, so don't use that. You meant to indicate "jl.toonzone.net/" (which has the headline at it's home page of "The Watchtower", in honor of the name of the JL's satellite HQ). But I've seen the comparisons for forever, there and elsewhere. In my opinion (and we can agree to disagree), it is an exaggeration to say that "alot" of info is missing. And the writer at the Watchtower's "The Widescreen Explanation" page is the first to say that, although he personally prefers to see the other information, the widescreen version is widely considered to be the "true" version.

More info isn't better, as Warner learned to their dismay with the original Willy Wonka film's DVD release. Some scenes shown for these stills comparing JL's aspect ratios are often shots in motion. For example, Superman is flying, swooping toward the "camera" and growing larger. Pick a "fullframe" shot where his head is still on screen, and then "matte" it to widescreen, and it looks cut-off. But a few frames later, Superman's head is cut off in the "fullframe" version as well, as he continues to move. Not a good example of "losing info", because it was the artistic choice of the people producing the episode to make the shot that way.

And then we come back to Bruce Timm's own preference, not to mention those of the other producers (Bruce's name gets singled out a lot, but it wasn't just him from all I heard; the Jim Harvey's of the world may know better than me, though). They intended for the show to be seen in "epic" widescreen from the very beginning, they fought for the network to show it wide, and then for the second season they simply changed things so that the show was animated in widescreen right off the get-go, to settle the matter for once and for all about the aspect ratio intentions. Ergo, OAR = widescreen.

A request: anyone who agrees with Jim Smith's opinions above, let's not let the "So would lots of fans" statement he made stand up for you. Let's see your own posts stating that. Because, frankly, all the e-mails I'm seeing over at at the site are from "lots of fans" who refuse to buy this set because it is not widescreen...and I'm saying Season 1, not anything beyond that. Frankly, I'm surprised that Jim's the only one who's responded to my post during the past 10 hours. But Jim, even if I disagree with you (and that's on a personal level, I'm not speaking for TVShowsOnDVD in that regard), I DO appreciate that you took the time to state your opinion, and so passionately. Thank you for that, and I don't intend to make this disagreement personal. I'm just fighting for what I believe in, same as you.


EDIT: I see John Simon has made a post that - more more concisely! - says what I had to say, and he made it while I was composing my normal "maximum verbosity"-style post. Thanks, John, for contributing!

 

[BrandonJF]

This is completely different than an open matte transfer of a live action film. You can't say that season one of JL wasn't composed for 4:3, because it HAD to be on some level. Nobody is ignoring the area above and below the matte line - they are DRAWING and ANIMATING it. It amazes me that after all the time and effot they take to actually animate this stuff, someone says "we don't ever want anyone to see what we did there". The artists must love that.

As far as OAR goes... correct me if I'm wrong, but I could've sworn that the season one JL episodes were originally broadcast 4:3 on Saturday nights and shown with the matte thrown over it the next day. If that's the case, I can't see how the matted version can ever be considered OAR.

This just isn't as cut and dry to me as it is with live action. There is actual art going on above and below the matte line. I get that Timm and co. wanted it to look more cinematic. I honestly wouldn't have been THAT upset with season 1 in widescreen due to how vocal he has been, but I would've held onto what season 1 eps have been released on DVD in 4:3 so I could have both (which would really be the ideal scenario, although I realize there's no way that's gonna happen). I would definitely prefer the 4:3 versions. That's at least MY OAR and I believe that somebody did intend for us to see that extra visual information. If nobody else, then at least the artist that drew it.

All that being said, I mailed off my letter to WB Home Video requesting season 2 in widescreen today.

 

[David Podjasek]

Unfortunately I am getting the distinct impression that most fans of the show simply:

(1) Cannot stand to know that there is a little more picture above and below the image that they are missing because of widescreen
(2) Do not have an eye for composition
(3) Do not care (or at least have decided that (1) is far more important) what the creators intended or wanted

I think the people reading this board are MUCH more knowledgeable about these things than most, and even here it appears we can only muster about half level support.

As I have said before, the situation actually depresses me quite a bit. These are some of my favorite shows. The Batman and Teen Titans are almost certainly filmed at 1.85:1 and pan/scanned, but WB doesn't appear to want that information out there.

It will depress me far more when I get the discs and am forced to watch them with black vertical bars on the side because my widescreen portable player (which believe it or not is what I watch most of these on) does not have a zoom mode.

It will also depress me greatly in a year or so when I buy my new widescreen TV and have to use a crappy zoom mode to see the correct image.

Frankly, it appears to me that educating people about how season 1 was filmed actually makes it worse. I have found very few people object to widescreen if they don't know about the film these days. They just assume that was the intended ratio. But it really confuses people when you show them they are actually seeing a little less picture info. That is the point of no return for many... they will crusade from then on for "more picture" regardless of whether it means less artistic quality.

Perhaps this is partially our part. For how many years did we show people shot comparisons between pan/scan and letterbox, and say "see how much picture you're missing???". This was far easier to explain than that the artistic integrity of the piece is severely compromised in the pan/scan version.

I remember the arguments that went around when the DC of The Abyss came out on laser disc and Jim Cameron stated that he preferred, given the relatively low resolution, the "recomposed" version (shot on Super 35). I thought we would loose the widescreen debate right there... but then DVD came and there seemed to be a growing acceptance of it.

So called "kids shows" seem to really be the last bastion of incorrect aspect ratio. I am beginning to think that one won't be beaten until an HD disc format comes out and people gradually switch over. :frowning:

 

[AndrewR]

For the lazy. From the above link:


Please, please PLEASE write! Hand-Written Letters say more than Online Petitions and e-mails these days.

 

[Randall Cyrenne]

Personally, at the risk of blaspheming, I could go either way on Season 1. On my widescreen set, I find that the "zoom" mode works out great for these episodes. I've watched all the S1 DVDs this way, and had no problems. The composition is exciting, nothing important gets cut off, and resolution seems quite adequate. So, while I would support a widescreen release, I can be satisfied with "fullscreen". (If I were watching an episode on my standard set-- like if my wife is using the widescreen TV at that time--- I would be satisfied with the fullscreen image.) For those wishing for an anamorphic widescreen transfer, I don't really think that anamorphic transfers would make much of a difference for TV cartoons, but I still side with you in having that preference for S1.

However, I would be very saddened to see S2 released in the 4:3 ratio. I have written my letter to Warner asking for a widescreen release, BUT I did also point out the benefit of seeing Season 1 in widescreen too.