Just set up a new RPTV and picture is less than desireable

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TommyB, Jun 19, 2002.

  1. TommyB

    TommyB Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I finished connecting a new Toshiba 50H81 about 1 1/2 hours ago and am not very impressed with the picture. From my readings on these forums, I new that cable was not going to look all that good, but I am concerned about the DVD picture.
    I am using a 56-RP progressive scan DVD connected with a Monster Cable (M-series) component cable. Again, from my readings here, I expected a crystal clear picture from the DVD...not the case[​IMG] The picture is snowy/grainy and also quite dark (I have contrast at 35 for the break-in).
    I have gone through both manuals and think I have evrything set up correctly. Can anyone think of anything I may be doing wrong?
    If I can't get a better picture than this, I think I'll take the $60 Daewoo out of the bedroom and hook it up with a cheap component cable (and get my $300 back).
     
  2. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 1998
    Messages:
    8,332
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Neil Joseph
    I am moving this to the display/TV area.
     
  3. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Real Name:
    Greg
    My "connecting" do you mean calibrating with Avia or Video Essentials? This will make a large difference. A proper ISF calibration (gray scale, disable SVM, etc.) will result in an even larger improvement.
     
  4. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What Greg said is absolutely true. Do not give up, and do not despair. Get Avia or Video Essentials, and calibrate carefully. Make certain you are really getting a Progressive signal (did you hit that button, on the DVD player? Is the monitor set for it (Progressive Scan?) properly?
     
  5. Jim FC

    Jim FC Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Also make sure you have a reference-quality DVD - many DVDs have graininess in the picture itself, which you may be seeing. Something new like Shrek or Toy Story is a good test. As Bruce said, make sure the DVD player is set up for progressive output - on most DVD players you must set this in the player's setup screen, and on most Panasonics this is done with no DVD in the tray, and pressing the action key.
    Finally, I noticed that you said you had "a Monster Cable (M-series) component cable" (emphasis mine). Component connections (Toshiba calls it "colorstream") consist of three cables, labeled Red/Blue/Green, or Y/Cr/Cb. This is the only way to go if you want that clear & colorful, progressive scanned picture. If you indeed have only one video cable going from the DVD player to the TV, then you got the wrong cable. Hope this helps...
     
  6. TommyB

    TommyB Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Greg,
    I haven't calibrated with Avia or VE yet. I've read that I should break the set in first...figured I would calibrate this weekend.

    Bruce,
    The green light for the progressive signal is on the DVD player, so I should be fine there. Do you know how to set the 50H81 for a progressive input...I didn't see anything in manual.

    Jim,
    I'll pick up Shrek (been wanting to buy it...haven't seen it yet) and see how it looks. Also, when I said "a...cable" I meant the whole component cable (3 cables). I'm a newbie, but give me some credit :b (just kidding, I appreciate you disecting my post and not taking anything for granted.

    One more thing...I guess I was expecting on getting a crystal clear image with this set-up (like the HDTV signals I see in the show rooms). Instead, I'm getting a duller "theater-like" picture. Just to clarify, which one should I expect and be shooting for?
     
  7. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    As long as you have the 56 connected to the TV via the component connections and have the progressive scan button "on" on the 56, you are utilizing progressive scan. Remember that the 50H81 upconverts a 480progressive image to 540 progressive, This apparently adds some artifacts into the image.
     
  8. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,756
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tommy,
    If you haven't already, turn your sharpness control down to about 20% or so.

    35% for Contrast should be about right, Brightness should be set so blacks are truly black and not dark gray.

    Also experiment with turning color down.

    If you can't get AVIA or VE right away, buy or rent a dvd with the THX optimode feature listed in the special features and use that to calibrate your set.

    AVIA or optimode calibration does not need to wait for a break in period, though should be redone periodically until the set is broken in, typically after 100 hrs of use.

    ISF calibration, done in the service menu to set grayscale and such does need to wait for break in, but not the AVIA setup you do in the user menu.
     
  9. WilliamG

    WilliamG Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Anyone-
    Sorry to break in here, but I'm getting this same set delivered Fri. a.m. and I also have the Panny RP-56.(Along w/a HiFi VCR and DirecTV). Should I go straight from the DVD player into the TV or go into the receiver(Onkyo 600)
    first?

    Thanks much!
     
  10. Craig

    Craig Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 1999
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    WilliamG, go with the DVD player straight into the TV for the video. You'll be using the component connections and most receivers don't have component inputs anyway. However even if your receiver does have the component connections it would be better to go straight to the TV.
     
  11. errol

    errol Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 1999
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi TommyB,

    Some DVDs can look like an HD image but most of the time, DVD images no matter how good just aren't as good as HD. 1080i/720p is not the same as 480i/480p or even 540p.

    Thanks,
    Errol
     
  12. TommyB

    TommyB Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Errol,

    That was my next concern, if (or should I say when) I decide to get HDTV, how will the picture look on this TV.

    Also, with the 50H81 doing the 540p upconversion, should I not even worry about using a progressive scan DVD and just stick with a normal one? I have not connected my old DVD player to the TV yet, but I may try tonight to see if I notice a difference.
     
  13. Mike-grouse

    Mike-grouse Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Alwoays get a pro-scan dvd player.

    Even thought the TV has a good line douler the conversion from digital (dvd) to anolog (to the TV) convert to digital ( for the line doubler) to analog (so the TV can display it) make the image more dull and artifacty than when using p-scan which converts digital to anolog and that's it. Less steps, better picture.

    in many cases the dvd player is downconverting the progrssive signall on the DVD players since the DVD format is inhrently progressive if encoded that way.

    Always calibrate too. And DVD through a good pro-scan dvd player CAN approach the quality of HDTV. Just look at "training day". THe whole movie looks high def.

    You'll get the best performance from anamorphic or "enhance for widescreen" dvd as the use more resolution to create the image. Some DVD scenes look better than their HDTV counterparts as HDTV needs to be compressed to fit throught the data pipeline presenting it. DVD is compressed on a scene by scene basis so that scenes that need the extra file size to look good can while other scenes are compressed more.

    If you want to know what to look for just understand the encoding m-peg does. M-peg looks great on mid to close-up shot and decent to crappy when you try to focus on small objects in the movie such as soldier in the distance. This has to do with reolution but mainly with the m-peg encoded. Knowing this you will now know what to expect from DVD.

    Hope this helps
     
  14. Jim FC

    Jim FC Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Another DVD that can look high-def through good and properly adjusted equipment is "Courage Under Fire." Not many people seem to mention this one, but it is an outstanding video transfer. Watched it last night on a buddy's 73" Mitsu through a JVC DVD player and was astonished.
     
  15. ChrisMatson

    ChrisMatson Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Have you done a basic convergence yet? RPTVs are usually misalligned out of the box. Make basic adjustments with AVIA now., and then give it a week to "break-in" to do a full calibration.
     
  16. TommyB

    TommyB Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I haven't done the convergence yet (I did hit the TouchPoint button, but I've heard that it doesn't really do much). I figured I would do the 9-point convergence when I have some time this weekend and do the Avia as soon as I get the disc.

    I know that a lot of people say it is not at all up to par out of the box. In fact, I live in an upstairs apartment and when they brought it up, they kept it on the dolly and slammed every step. If this is how it's taken care of when the owner of the product is right there, there's no telling what it goes through before it arrives at your house.

    I'll do the calibrations and report back after the weekend. Thanks again for everyone's advice and help.
     
  17. Jim FC

    Jim FC Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I delivered TVs for a long time (the old 40" Mitsu drove me and my back to quit), and the most abuse they take is usually the final 100 feet into the customer's home. There's simply not too many homes you can move a huge, awkward, heavy box with nowhere to grab, inside without jostling it a bit, especially when stairs are involved (EVERYBODY wants them downstairs!) I had one guy that wanted a 50" TV up a spiral staircase, and I told him to get bent. Moving pianos is easier than delivering many big screen TVs... tip these dudes!

    People are always understandably nervous about any little bump or rattle when the guys are moving their new expensive TV in, but external damage during delivery is far more common than internal damage.
     
  18. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tommy:

    You have a marvelous display, and the thing needs to be dialed in. Convergence is your first priority. Then an AVIA and/or Video Essentials user calibration. After another hundred hours or so, it's time to call your friendly local ISF technician.

    You may simply be used to watching "television" as opposed to home theater. After you grow accustomed to the SVM being disabled and the so-called "sharpness" control being turned off, you will then notice the details you have been missing.

    After a while, you will never want to go back.

    RPTVs can look horrible out of the box, worse than direct-view sets.
     
  19. TommyB

    TommyB Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jack,

    Thanks for the tips. As I said, I am going to do the "9-point convergence" this weekend, however I have also read about a "56-point convergence" through the "service manual". I have seen a few websites where I can download this manual, but would you recommend this for a newbie; don't want to blow up the new display!!

    Also, you mentioned SVM, I have read two different things about this regarding the 50H81; one is that it is disabled when you choose "movie" mode, then make the adjustments to the settings, the other is that I would have to actually go into the TV and physically disable it. Can you confirm one or the other (if it means going into the set, I may wait until I'm more comfortable with it, or have it professionaly done).
     
  20. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tommy:

    On your Tosh, just select "Movie" mode, and you're SVM-free. With some sets, the SVM can only be disabled by going inside the set and voiding the warranty in the process. Toshiba is not one of those!

    Just last week, some dear friends had me over for dinner and some home theater. Their display: a Toshiba 56H80. I calibrated the thing for them months ago. Though the convergence was off a bit, the picture looked dazzling. Even with the convergence slightly off.

    There are other things you'll adjust to after time--such as viewing your Toshiba in its "sweet spot" (almost directly front and center--so as to minimize the appearance of "hot spotting").

    Seriously, once you adjust to the RPTV yourself, you'll wonder how you ever managed without one.

    Again, you have a sophisticated, complex television. You will look at it as your most prized possession within the next month or so!

    Keep coming back here with any questions.

    JB
     

Share This Page