Just hooked up new Velodyne 12" CHT - sounds a bit too muddy - any suggestions?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dave H, Nov 3, 2002.

  1. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    It just seems the bass is a bit muddy. Any suggestions?

    On my receiver, I have all speaker settings set to "small" and on my subwoofer I have the lowpass crossover set at about 85 and I have the internal crossover on.


    According to the Radio Shack digital sound meter I have, the volume is about 3-4db higher than my other speakers. (I have heard to bump it up a few because the sound meter is a bit low with LFE.)

    Maybe I need to lower the sub's volume even more?
     
  2. mark rush

    mark rush Stunt Coordinator

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    what kind of main speakers do you have, you might try moving the sub around and see how it sounds, try a front corner, then along the main wall near your main speakers, placement can make a big change, good luck
     
  3. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I have Yamaha main speakers NS-A200XT which consist of dual 8", 4.25", 1" tweeter.

    As far as placement, I really have no where else to move it.

    Right now, it sits to the right of the right main speaker. I could move it to the right of the left main speaker, right next to the TV though and the manual did not recommend that.
     
  4. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Dave,

    Since the RS meter tends to *read* low during the bass calibration tone...you want to use about 73dB for the sub and 75dB for the rest of the speakers to get them all on the same page. From there you can always tweak as personal taste requires of course. Right now..you have the bass about 5-7dB higher than the rest of the speakers.

    Experimenting with subwoofer placement is also very important---the performance of the subwoofer is quite dependent on where you place it in a room. Corners tend to work well,preferably corners near the key seating. Lastly, try experimenting with the subwoofer phase control too. (be sure to recalibrate the unit each time you try a new location too).

    TV
     
  5. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I re-adjusted the sub's volume control so now that it reads about 2-3db less on the meter than the other speakers.

    As far as placement, there really isn't too much I can do because of the room. In a nutshell, I have my 61" TV in the corner of the room. My viewing position is in the opposite corner of the room.

    I tried changing the phase control switch from 0 to 180 but notice nothing.
     
  6. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Any other opinions welcomed - especially those experienced with subs.
     
  7. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    I think you're "cascading" crossovers. It sounds like you're feeding the sub a low freq. only signal from the receiver, but you also have the sub's internal crossover on. You want to avoid that.

    Turn the sub's internal crossover off, and also just to be safe, turn the sub's lowpass knob all the way up (highest frequency).

    This should make things a little better, but you may still other issues.

    What's your receiver?
     
  8. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Hey Richard,

    My receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5240. It appears all I can do is set the "small" or "large" speaker settings to direct bass on it. Right now, everything is set to "small."

    If I want to turn the internal corssover off, there is a switch that points to "direct" or "internal X-over" - so I want it on "direct"?

    And, by turning my low pass knob all the way up, that would be 120 HZ, right? (the range is 40hx-120hz)
     
  9. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    I had this same problem with the previous model, the CT-120. I went to the local landscape supply shop and bought a piece of slate (2" thick, 2'x 1.5') and placed it under the sub. Solved the boomy/muddyness problem, tightened the bass up very nicely. I still use the slate under my DIY Tempest Sonosub.
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  10. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I just talked to someone at Velodyne.

    He recommended I use the internal (sub) crossover and experiment with the hz setting (between 40-80 hz).

    He also said not to bother with using the radio shack sound meter and just go by ear because it is totally inadequate for low bass.
     
  11. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Hi Dave, What do you have your SW gain on your receiver set at? What do you have the gain set at on the back of your sub? If you could state both ranges that would be useful to.
     
  12. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Steve,

    What do you mean by "gain"? ON my receiver for the "Bass Out" option, I have SW selected which sends low bass signals to the sub.

    I don't see a gain switch on the sub - unless maybe it's called something differently.


    Also, I have set my low pass crossover switch to 95 hz - I was told this is good since my receiver sends signals 90hz and below to the sub (the 5db is a buffer).
     
  13. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    OK Dave you should have a button on your receiver that you can press and it will tell you what you have your center speaker set at. -10 to +10 is a common range then you press it again and it could be your left surround that would come up next. I am looking for your SW setting, it will have one. We call it the volume of each speaker. The sub is called gain. When we calibrate this is used. Do you have a sound button? This setting is used to change the volume-gain of your sub after calibrating and used in calibrating. Lets just call it a volume button for each speaker and the SW will be your sub.[​IMG]
     
  14. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Steve,

    The bass is set at 0 db --- which is default. I have 2 LFE settings - one for DTS and one for DD. range is -20db to 0 db for DD.

    For DTS it is -10db to +10 db. Again now it is set at 0 db.

    I am not sure I have a volume gain button as you mentioned.

    My receiver is the Yamaha HTR 5240.
     
  15. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    Your receiver is sending out a signal that is already low-passed. Therefore you don't want any other crossovers in the way. You want your sub set on "direct," that is correct.

    I'm almost positive that the sub's crossover knob will have no effect once you have the sub on "direct," but go ahead and turn it all the way to 120 Hz anyways.

    What the Velodyne people told you is wrong. You do not want to cascade 2 crossovers. Now, there are some rare cases where the room is contributing significant bass right at the crossover frequency, and in those cases you could experiment w/ using the sub's low-pass crossover in addition, setting it a little below what the receiver's sub-out signal is low-passed at.
     
  16. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Ok, Richard I made that change now, Do you think the Radio Shack digital sound meter is still worthwhile to use as a baseline?
     
  17. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Velodyne is also wrong on the meter. OK Dave in DTS you have your receiver set to the middle value but in DD you are not. Set it to the middle value which would be -10 in DD on your receiver and on the back of your sub set it to three and go from there. You are x/over at your receiver. Direct is the way to go. Try to get your sub in the rang of 2 1/4 to 4 and your DD receiver SW bass setting at -10 to -12.
     
  18. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    "Velodyne is also wrong on the meter. OK Dave in DTS you have your receiver set to the middle value but in DD you are not. Set it to the middle value which would be -10 in DD on your receiver and on the back of your sub set it to three and go from there. You are x/over at your receiver. Direct is the way to go. Try to get your sub in the rang of 2 1/4 to 4 and your DD receiver SW setting at -10 to -12."


    Steve,

    I just set the DD to -10db. What do you mean by setting it to three on the back of my sub? You mean then sub volume? Won't that be too loud? Right now it is at about 1.25 (actually, there are dots that represent the voluem points).
     
  19. MikeH1

    MikeH1 Screenwriter

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  20. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Actually I didn't, Mike ---It just arrived on Friday.
     

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