Just got my first TICKET! ...suggestions? (1 Viewer)

[Gregg Loewen]

Not sure about your state, but in my last state (NC) if you are convicted of a greater than 15 mph excess of the speed limit you automatically lose your lience. In addition I was told my auto insurance would increase by 50%.
Anyways, after my ticket I received at least 10 attorney letters within the first week. I called the 1800 number on the first letter and paid his $150 fee. After 2 court appearances the attorney had my fine down to a $25 seat belt violation and $75 court cost. The total cost was about $250, with no court appearances, no insurance increases, etc. It also made a big difference that I had a clean driving record.
One last thought...I would do anything to ensure that my driving record stayed clean. Once a "prayer for judgement" or official warning is on your record, you will definitely be given a ticket next time your are clocked speeding.
FWIW
Gregg

 

[Neil Joseph]

You guys are scaring me here. I regularly drive around 140kph (88mph) as do most people on the highway over here (Toronto). I have to take a trip to Michigan soon. What are the tolerances over there? I may keep it down to 120kph (75mph) if I have to.

 

[Janna S]

About whether you can fight it, lose, pay the ticket, then take trafic school to remove or reduce the points - CALL THE LOCAL COURT (or the city attorney's office) and ask this question. FIND OUT how the system works where YOU are. Things vary so widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction that what you've been told here might not apply - or there might be an even better option for you in your own court.

And about getting an attorney - the people who appeared for trial in front of me without one by and large did better for themselves than did the people who had attorneys. Assuming this is a garden-variety moving violation, not one that causes automatic loss of license or the possiblity of a fine heavy enough to indicate criminality (both of which turn a simple ticket into a criminal offense, in which you are probably entitled to a jury trial, a court appointed attorney if you can't afford your own, and all the criminal court protections) attorneys usually don't have lower court experience, and they muck things up and over-represent people.

The court has a heightened responsibility toward people who are unrepresented, and you may be better off as a repentant, unrepresented, trusting defendant.

PS This advice does not apply if you are charged with a crime. In that case, call a lawyer and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

 

[Ryan Wright]

What are the tolerances over there?

Anywhere in the USA, the most you can expect to get away with is about 4mph over the limit. At 5mph on up, you become a target.

That doesn't mean you can't get a ticket for 4mph over. Just that most cops won't bother. I have, however, been harassed by a cop for doing 2mph over once. That's right, TWO miles per hour over the limit. Why? When I was 16, I was pulled over for racing another vehicle. I was an idiot, and was doing about 90 in a 35, "proving" my car was better than his. I was nailed with a $500 criminal offense, suspended license, the whole works. Well, the judge f***ed up by not informing me of a few things before sentencing, so I hired an attorney and had my conviction pulled, reversed, and dropped to a $100 speeding ticket.

After that, all of the local cops knew me. I was harassed on a regular basis. Pulled over for no reason many times. Once, a cop pulled me over just to ask me where I was going. When I told him it was none of his damn business he went back to his car and made me wait for over 15 minutes. I finally got his attention and he came back to my window so I could ask exactly what grounds he had for detaining me. He refused to tell me. I told him "Thank you very much" and drove away with him standing there. He got back in his car, turned around and went the other way.

Then there was the "improper lane change" deal that I posted about in another thread here.

I once took a girl out on a blind date and was harassed in a local diner. A group of cops were hanging out there and continually made smartass remarks to me the entire time we were there. They waved at me. One made motions with his hands like he was driving, loosing control of his "car" and wrecking, along with sound effects and everything - while the rest sat there and laughed. (It's interesting to note I'd never been in an accident)

Once I sold my MR-2 and bought my Fiero, they no longer knew my car and left me alone. Never had a problem since. Although, I feel pity for the person who bought my car. I wonder how many times they were pulled over and harassed because the cops thought it was me.

 

[Kirk Gunn]

The past couple tickets I have gotten (speeding and red light) I have pleased "Guilty with an explanation". Was polite, just said I knew I was speeding but don't believe it was X mph over the limit.

Both cases the judge gave me Probabation Before Judgement, which means "Keep your nose clean for a year and we'll forget about it". Court costs were the same as the ticket fine, but there were no points on my license and no insurance increase.

Good Luck

 

[Mike_Ped]

I got the letter today.

The fine is a lot less than I had anticipated...

$86 + $31(if I want to take traffic school)

Knowing that if I lose the case I can't take traffic school, I'm probably going to pay the fine. The reason being...I still live at home, the car is owned by my mother and it is her insurance. So, if I lose, HER insurance goes up. Hmm....

Mike

 

[Randy Tennison]

As a cop, I'm not sure what else I can add to the advise given here. The only thing I can think is to find out if an attorney can plea bargain the ticket down for your before court, with the prosecutor. If so, you pay a higher fine, but don't get the conviction or the points. That's the way it works in my town.

As to the "Asshole" cops everyone mentions, I can only say this. . . Do you know who hates those asshole cops more than you do??? Every other cop. Because of those asshole cops who abuse their authority or have bad attitudes, we all have to experience the publics reactions. I may wear the same uniform as that asshole cop, but I am not him / her. Treat me as an individual, just as I do you.

As far as speeding tickets go . . . Pull a dead teenager out of a wrecked car sometime, go to their home and tell their parents they will never see their child again, and then tell me that we should not enforce speed laws. I write tickets so that I hopefully don't have to make any more death notifications.

 

[Janna S]

I couldn't agree with you more about speeding, Randy. Coroner's cases cured me of go-fast, get-drunk, and any number of juvenile behaviors.

And as a lawyer, and a former judge, I am tarred by bad lawyers/bad judges the same way you are tarred by bad cops.

 

[Steve Owen]

Randy, Janna... I agree that wreckless driving, drunk driving, and excessive speeding should be punished VERY harshly. What I take issue with is police departments that use speeding tickets as a source of income. There's absolutely no excuse for handing out speeding tickets to someone driving 75 in a 65 zone when there's no traffic and the road conditions are good. It's at moments like that that I think "Don't these guys have anything better to do?" Isn't there actual crime somewhere that they could be taking care of?

Someone driving 50 or 60 MPH in a 65 zone is far more dangerous than someone driving 85 or 90 (assuming traffic conditions warrant it... I do NOT mean weaving through heavy traffic).

My first traffic ticket was for tailgating... a cop. Now here's the kicker. It was in bumper to bumper traffic. How the heck can you tailgate someone when you're going less than 5 MPH through the center of a small town at rush hour? It turns out that the officer that gave me the ticket was in training. One of his first days on the job. He and another officer were out looking for any excuse they could find so they could give him field experience in writing tickets (or so I was told by someone I know who was friends with other police on the force). I should have fought it, but was young and stupid, so I didn't.

My next ticket was for "failure to use caution at an intersection". I was part of an accident. It was about 7:00am in January and it was unusually warm, so there was a dense DENSE fog coming off the snow and it was still very dark. I came to a "T" intersection. Looked left, looked right, looked some more, and saw lights WAY off the distance. So I inched out into the intersection to make my left turn. All of a sudden a car pops out of the fog and nails me in the front left corner. The car DID NOT have it's headlights on! The police came and we both explained our cases... and the officer gave ME a ticket. So I fought it in court. The last question that the judge asked me was what color the car that hit me was. It was grey. He dismissed the ticket.

My only other incident was for speeding. I got a warning... for 45 in a 35 zone. This was on a stretch of road where there is no homes, no foot traffic, sufficient road width and no traffic. The ONLY reason that 35 MPH zone exists is for the purpose of speedtraps. But I was exceptionally polite, admitted my mistake, thanked the officer for alerting me to the fact that I had been speeding, and told him that I would be much more careful in the future (I'm pretty sure that my behavior is why I got a warning instead of a ticket).

Anyway, I'm all for police doing what they can to keep the roads safe. But my experience has been that they're more interested in collecting money for the respective communities/states and less intrested in fighting road behavior that's actually dangerous. I can't tell how many times I've been on the road at night only to see people driving who are clearly drunk... but no cops in sight. But during the day they're crawling around the roads giving people tickets for things like failure to come to a complete stop at an intersection.

-Steve

 

[Ryan Wright]

Every other cop. Because of those asshole cops who abuse their authority or have bad attitudes, we all have to experience the publics reactions. I may wear the same uniform as that asshole cop, but I am not him / her. Treat me as an individual, just as I do you.

Randy, I agree with you here. I try to give every cop the benefit of the doubt. A guy who lives down the street from me used to be a cop - he quit in his own words because of the corruption on the force. Told me there's a group of officers down there who are big time into kiddie porn. :frowning:
My wife has a friend whose husband is a cop. He has one friend on the force, but otherwise refuses to associate with the rest of them for the same reasons. Says they're into all sorts of things he doesn't want to talk about.
It's too bad, because I know there are good cops. I've run into a few. One pulled me over for having my front license plate in my window instead of on my bumper. He didn't even ask for my license. He apologized for pulling me over, then told me "I only wanted to warn you. There are others on the force who will fine you and harass you over it. So, in order to not attract their ire, you should really put it on the bumper where it belongs." What a cool cop.
Steve: This is also the problem I have with tickets. I've been ticketed for merely keeping up with traffic. I was once doing ~75 in a 65. I was being PASSED by semis, who had to have been doing at least 80, but who were supposed to be doing only 60. I was pulled over and ticketed, likely because I was driving a red sports car. What gives? The guys in the big rig with the CDLs doing 20 over would have generated a lot more money than I did.
I understand the safety theme, but most tickets are not handed out in the name of safety. If you give someone a ticket for doing 10 over the limit in good conditions on a quiet stretch of freeway, you're not doing it in the name of safety. I can understand someone flying down the freeway at 100mph, or weaving in and out of traffic at a high rate of speed, or doing 30 in a school zone with children present. That's a safety issue. Most speeding tickets are for just a few mph over the limit and are completely unwarranted...

 

[CharlesD]

After more than fifteen years of dealing with criminal law, traffic court, and coroner's cases, I believe that the two realistic things we could do in this country to save lives, prevent injuries, and avoid grief and heartache and economic loss would be to get people to slow down, and to stop excessive alcohol consumption (and I don't mean just while driving).

Here's one more suggestion: have meaningful driving training and tests. They practicaly gve away liscenes in most states. Rigorous training and the teaching of defensive driving techniques could do as much to reduce driving deaths IMO.

Someone near the top of the thread mentioned that mailing in the fine is the same as admitting guilt. I don't think this is true, many tickests will have a "no contest" option, where you pay the fine but do not admit guilt. If its the cop's word against yours, 9 times out of 10 you loose. If the option is not there you can write it in (I did this once... I average 1 speeding ticket every 3 or 4 years).

Guilty with an excuse is a good ploy, so long as you are truthful. I got a red light ticket once (and I never intentionaly run red lights, its incredibly stupid) I won't bore you with the details, but I simply wrote a letter to the judge and did not try to distort the facts and I anticipated what the cop would put in his report. I still had to pay the fine as "court costs" but no record of the "offence", no points, and no extra money for the insurance parasites.

Most cops in my (fortunately) limited experience are of the asshole kind which is too bad, especially for the minority of decent cops that I've come across. The cops where I live are particularly bad (just across the state line from Randy Tennison). A neighbour of some friends of mine is a retired US Marshal (and no "soft on crime liberal" either) who worked for that department for a while before resigning because the cops there were "too facist".

 

[Randy Tennison]

Steve and Ryan,
I don't want to get into a huge philosophical arguement (mainly cause I can't seem to spell philosphical), but your arguement as to why tickets should not be written is precisely why the laws have to be enforced. No one drives recklessly when they believe doing so places their safety in jeopardy. No one speeds if they think it will kill them. And no one plans to have a motor vehicle collision. They are accidents which occur most often when a driver feels they are safe. Accidents happen at precisely the times you mention. When you think you are driving alone on a freeway; when you think there is no one else around; when you think you are merely keeping up with traffic. If you perceive danger or a threat, you focus on your driving, and you block out the distractions. You become hyper-careful.
Accidents are just that: Accidents. They are unplanned and happen unexpectedly when the driver does not perceive any danger. Most of the injuries in accidents are caused by excessive speed.
Therefore, the guy driving 75 in a 65, feeling very safe and comfortable (on "auto-pilot", if you will), thinking no one else is around is much more likely to be in an accident than the vigelent, attentive driver who is obeying the traffic laws and driving defensively.
The law sets a maximum speed limit. If you exceed it, you've broken the law. You get a ticket. Your choice.
And by the way, I can't speak for every other jurisdiction, but my department actually gets very little of a traffic fine (were talking a couple of bucks). A large chunk goes to the state, to the crime victims compensation fund, to the state law enforcement training fund, and to the general revenue fund. It's not like we write $20,000 in tickets and we get a new car (or "3 more tickets and my wife gets a toaster!"). As a smaller department, we are actually encouraged to write warning tickets, if it is perceived by the officer that a warning ticket will suffice to make an impression with the driver to drive more safely.
So, I hope you will be safe in your driving, and if you ever come through my town, don't speed. I'd much rather meet you guys over a beer than in the reflection of red and blue lights!

 

[Janna S]

To add to Randy's explanation of the realities of ticket revenue: the cost of issuing tickets, processing tickets, designing and printing and distributing ticket blanks, keeping track of tickets issued, filing tickets with the court system, calendaring the tickets for trial, having

in-court clerks and traffic court judges and A/R clerks and clerks who prepare and mail out fine, calendar, and reminder notices, not to mention the cost of police cars, salaries, uniforms, training, and the cost of court houses and courtrooms and recording equipment. Then there are appellate costs, orders to show cause/bench warrants for failure to pay fines, license actions, etc.

Tickets - for traffic violations, animal control, curfew, zoning, anything done at the quasi-criminal/minor offense level) - are costly enforcement tools. When you get into criminal law, the costs zoom. Due process is expensive.

But without these systems, people inevitably set their own standards of behavior (MY dog is under control even when he's off the leash; MY garden shed isn't too big for my lot; I'm a safer driver at 85 than most of the bozos on the road; why should I wait at the light if there are no cars in sight; there's plenty of room for me to cut into traffic; she looked 16 to me . . . it goes on and on and on.)

(PS The cost effectiveness debate regarding enforcement happens in other quirky areas of public endeavor - in professional library conferences, a common discussion is whether book fines cost more to enforce than they save!)

 

[Jerome Grate]

I'm nor sure how it's in your area but with me the idea is to get out of the speeding charge so no points or in your case driving school is in the cards. I would try to reach out to the officer and first tell him this is your first offense and of course explain the story. Then simply ask the officer if you can plea guilty to a lesser infraction such as failure to obey traffic device. Usually that covers so much grounds and a lot of times it works. This way you pay the fine, the court gets it's money and the cop did his duty.

 

[Scott Strang]

A day in court can be good for you too. When I was much younger a motorist was rear ended by me. Yes it was my fault. I felt like a common criminal since I'd never been to court before. But after sitting in there and seeing some of the other cases before the court (DWI's, drug possesion, attempted murder, robbery, etc.) I quickly realized that the judge probably wished that cases like mine weren't even there; they simply had far more important cases to worry about than mine. I felt like an angel in comparison to those other people before the court.

The officer was a state trooper and very courteous. He suggested that I go to court and plead not guilty. I did so and after two court dates and the trooper not showing up, the ticket was dismissed.

One thing to remember about cops is that they have a job that often is thankless, under-paying, loaded with red tape, etc. If a police officer kills in self defense, they can be in for the hassle of their life. It doesn't matter that the thug had little value for human life and that the officer is loved by a family, spouse, child, sibling,etc.

I realize that there are some cops who's only distinguishing characteristic from a thug is a badge, but it's probably safe to assume that 80% are honest people that got into law enforcement because they believed it was the right thing to do and that they could help improve the quality of life in the area in which they work.

How many of us would give up our current jobs to take on the hazards of a career in law enforcement.

Also, I don't like tickets any more than anyone else. But giving them is the job of the officer.

Being nice to a police officer can go a long way toward how you're treated by them.

 

[Ryan Wright]

How many of us would give up our current jobs to take on the hazards of a career in law enforcement.

I would, in a heartbeat. The biggest problem is the pay. I make significantly more money doing what I do now and wouldn't take a pay cut to be a cop. The other issue is my relatively small 5'6" 130lbs. Last time I checked, little guys like me don't get to be cops.

But otherwise... hell yeah, I'd like to be a cop.

 

[Eric Kahn]

I live in Ohio, which has a reputation far and wide in the transportation industry (truck drivers, which I used to be) about its state troopers, not a good reputation either
aside from the state troopers, I have had a problem with the police only once (despite having many tickets)
the majority of police officers resent being used as revenue enhancement agents but have no choice
In Cincinnati a couple of years ago, the police were PO'ed at the city for some reason and started issueing more warnings and less tickets and the city sued the FOP for an ''illegal strike''
even though we know that there are no ''quotas'', if a municapality here does not write enough tickets to meet a state revenue figure, they still have to pay that figure to the state, which means it comes out of the general fund
I learned along time ago to be polite to the police officer, groveling helps once in a while, but with the whole system is stacked above the officer, he or she most of the time has very little control over he or she can do
best bet is to drive with the flow of traffic, make sure all your lights work and that the license plates are where they are supposed to be, if you do not stick out in the crowd, you do not get picked on, driving a 4 door grannies car works also
If you speed, it is only a matter of time before you win the ticket lottery

 

[Scott Strang]

Speaking of Lottery, I won the lottery at work the other day; the random drug test lottery.
Sometimes tickets need to be issued for speeding. Some people do stupid shit like speeding in school zones, residential areas, down congested city streets, church zones, etc. But speeding in areas like open interstates is far easier to get away with and far more reasonable.

 

[Nathan*W]

The other issue is my relatively small 5'6" 130lbs. Last time I checked, little guys like me don't get to be cops.

Ryan,
I went to the Police Academy with a girl who was 5'3" and 100lbs. soaking wet. There was a guy already on the job with measurements very similar to yours. Trust me, if you have the drive and desire, guys like you can be great cops.
HOWEVER, if money is a big deal to you, Law Enforcement is the wrong profession. You are just NEVER going to be paid what the job deserves.

 

[Steve Owen]

The law sets a maximum speed limit. If you exceed it, you've broken the law. You get a ticket. Your choice.

I agree. I don't expect to NOT get a ticket if I ever get pulled over going 75 in a 65, but that doesn't mean the law is right. It doesn't mean that the resources at work could be better used elsewhere.
Someone else also mentioned ease of licensing in this country. I completely agree with that. Something that should be taught, but is completely ignored, is car control. How about getting into a skid on wet or snowy pavement? Shouldn't they teach how to handle that??? When I was a kid with my learners permit (and even before that... but don't tell anyone) my dad would take me to an empty parking lot when it snowed. We'd have a blast doing donuts and sliding around in the family wagon. It was fun, but it gave me a very safe environment in which to learn car control in dangerous situations. Those are VERY important skills. The sad thing is that if we'd ever been caught, he probably would have gotten a citation for it (or worse... especially in the days before I had my permit). The bottom line is that what he did was a VERY good thing and I'm a MUCH better driver for it. Every kid should learn such skills before they're allowed to hit the road behind the wheel of the family's 3000 lb SUV.
I guess my point is that if we took half of the police out there giving out tickets in speed traps and other non-dangerous situations and put them into licensing programs and car control courses then the bottom line would be safer roads.
In the meantime I'll continue driving the safest way I know how, and if that means I eventually get a speeding ticket, then so be it...
-Steve