Just bought Mitsubishi Eclipse basic RS for $24,000. Good Deal? (1 Viewer)

[John Garcia]

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...&highlight=wrx

 

[Charles J P]

Charles, don't base your opinion on the WRX on the opinions of a few interne owners. Read surveys such as Consumer Reports where they have analysed many cars for reliability and determined base on statistically significant research. Scoobies are exceptionally well built cars.

I would sooner believe a bunch of owner-enthusiasts than consumer reports who only test the car for a specific period of time. That is one of the inherent dangers of reviews of that type. These initial quality reports are useless. Some people can afford to continually lease cars, some poeple can afford to get out of a car if they get a crappy one... I cannot. Whatever I buy must be as problem free as possible for the next ten years or so. And that includes minor problems. I dont want a great, fun car for two years, and then a rattle box with all kinds of problems for the next 8. I would rather have a good, but maybe not so fun car like an Accord or Camry that stays in good shape for the whole ten years. I would love to own a WRX, since it is exactly my personality, but I dont want and unreliable car.

CharlesD, do you have a WRX? If so, do your doors rattle when you close them with the windows down? I have seen many comments like this on the forum too. Things like this would not likely be affected by mods, and many people on these forums have bone stock cars. If there starting of rattling and squeeking on a car that (by its US release date) cannot be more than a year or two old, then this is probably not a car I would want to be driving 10 years from now. I would love if some previous-gen Impreza owners would talk about their quality experiences. I really want to get this car, but I and my fiance will be very mad if I end up with a poor quality car just because I wanted something fast.

 

[CharlesD]

I have a WRX and have had no problems with it whatsoever.

 

[Charles J P]

I just want to make it clear that I'm certainly not accusing anyone who doesnt have problems of being liars. Its just that there are a hell of a lot of transmission problems posts on those forums. Does your WRX go from first into second while coasting at 5-10 mph? Does it ever grind gears?

 

[CharlesD]

Nope never had any problems like that. Like I said before I don't think that complaints about car problems on an Internet forum are representative of widespread problems with a car. Its the people who have a problem that write in to complain. For every complaint there are probably 100s of owners who do not have that problem.

A co-worker of mine has had his WRX for about a year and has had no problems. He auto-xs it too, and tells me the 5 or so other guys with WRXs who do it regularly haven't had problems with theirs either.

Now the WRX is an easy car to abuse... too many people get a WRX and think they are Richard Burns. Abuse any car and you can get it to break, but I really don't think the WRX has any serious reliability problems.

 

[AjayM]

I think internet forums are a great place to get a general idea of a car. If you log onto a forum and see a "larger" number of posts about trasmissions going bad, then I think it's safe to assume that this would be a weak link in the car. You may very well never have a problem with it, but when you see that large number of posts about a single problem then it could be an issue.

Andrew

 

[CharlesD]

Andrew,
You have a good point there. On the other hand, I have been reading i-club and clubwrx on a daily basis for the last 6 months or so and although I do see a fair amount of talk about "the transmission problem" I have not seen many posts from people who have actually had it happen to them.
I do see many posts about how a $30 MBC can greatly increase the performance of the car, and how to get the best 0-60 or 1/4 mile times or to win a street race is to rev to 5K rpm and dump the clutch...
Now a high rpm "launch" is fun to do occaisionaly, but do it on a regular basis and/or set the boost on that MBC a little too high and you can break the tranny. Duh!
Subaru have a well-deserved reputation for reliability. The WRX has been around in one form or another for the last 8 years or so. They know what they are doing.
However, the WRX is a new toy for enthusiasts here in NA and it is not particularly expensive, so it falls into the hands of the less experienced and those with some extra money to burn on modifications, so it does not surprise me that some go over the top and break things on it.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Charles J P,

There is a great deal of wisdom in CharlesD's post. People who post on enthusiast forums often modify their cars and drive them very hard. This is not a sample that is going to give you accurate results of how the car stacks up. Racing and engine modifications are very tough on a tranny.

Also, It appears that you completely misunderstand or don't know what I'm talking about in Consumer Reports. I'm not talking about their initial review. I'm talking about the years of surveying they do to come up with numbers for how well cars hold up over time. This is mostly found int he used car issue. The reliability reports they produce are based on owners surveys year after year. Scoobies fare very well in this area.

 

[AjayM]

There is a great deal of wisdom in CharlesD's post. People who post on enthusiast forums often modify their cars and drive them very hard. This is not a sample that is going to give you accurate results of how the car stacks up. Racing and engine modifications are very tough on a tranny.

But if you end up in one of those forums you are probably one of those people.
So it may not be a sample of how every car is going to be, but a bunch of enthusiasts have a problem, and you are an enthusiast yourself and see a problem mentioned on a forum somewhere, then I would say it's safe to assume that is one of the "weak" spots of the car. So while it may never happen to you, the potential is still there.
Andrew

 

[Philip Hamm]

If you exceed the design specifications of anything it's more likely to break.

 

[AjayM]

While that is obviously true, the WRX is marketed as an enthusiasts vehicle. Therefore it will be driven harder than a car that is marketed to a middle aged soccer mom. And we're not talking about ultra-serious, rev it to the limiter and side step the clutch at every stop light, type abuse here.

But I don't know the whole story, so in the WRX case maybe it is plain and simple over-abuse. Maybe those guys are pushing radically higher hp numbers than stock and such. But a car should be designed so that in stock form it should live to I guess what you could call enthusiasts abuse. I'm not talking about simple things like clutchs, brakes, tires, shocks, etc wearing out. But when your gearbox is crunching and you are still stock (with low miles) there is something wrong.

Also I know a guy (friend of a friend of a friend type deals) that managed to turn in an RX7 under the lemon law because of the problems he had, in court (well in this specific case they were under magistrate) Mazda argues that this guy abused his vehicle by taking it to autocross's and DE's (drivers education events on a race track, but it's "non-timed" event and there is no competition), the magistrate threw it right out pointing at all of Mazda's marketing literature saying how it's the perfect sports/race car, etc.

Andrew

 

[Charles J P]

I agree, there is only so much abuse you can do to a 2002 model that had problems with the first gear synchros right off the lot and gear grinding just a few months later, no? Like I said, I'm not calling anyone who doesnt have problems a liar, but like Ajay said, anyone who would scout out a car at an enthusiast forum is likely the kind of person who will drive the car enthusiastically. I guess if you have problems enthusiastically vs abuse will have to be defined by the judge.

 

[Chris_Anders]

Uhhhh, hey guys, this is a MITSUBISHI Thread, not WRX.

And yeah, the MSRP is around 18,000, then there was 2200$ Dealer invoice which I couldn't talk them out of ( I used to be a car salesman as well) There was also 1300 for gap insurance, 555$ destination, 750$ for free rental insurance in case it breaks down, and I added 3 years onto the warrenty for 1500$.... Soooo, I think that adds up to around 24305$. So by that Judgement, I suppose I got mucho extras in the insurance department. I did not get taken. That much I know, i just don't think I got an exceptional deal. Some dealerships work with you on their dealer invoice, and I didn't feel like going through that hell of bickering and fighting, trust me I know, I had many a john q public do that with me.

 

[Chris_Anders]

c'mon people

 

[Philip Hamm]

If you're happy with the deal then just enjoy the car. (Though I can't help but wonder why bother asking if you got a "good deal" here?) I recommend that you find a Mitsubishi Eclipse enthusiast's website and post about your car there. When I got my Audi I joined www.audiworld.com and it's been a good resource.
BTW did you get a standard or automatic tranny?

 

[AjayM]

And yeah, the MSRP is around 18,000, then there was 2200$ Dealer invoice which I couldn't talk them out of ( I used to be a car salesman as well) There was also 1300 for gap insurance, 555$ destination, 750$ for free rental insurance in case it breaks down, and I added 3 years onto the warrenty for 1500$.... Soooo, I think that adds up to around 24305$. So by that Judgement, I suppose I got mucho extras in the insurance department. I did not get taken. That much I know, i just don't think I got an exceptional deal. Some dealerships work with you on their dealer invoice, and I didn't feel like going through that hell of bickering and fighting, trust me I know, I had many a john q public do that with me.

MSRP was $18k, what was the extra $2200 for? Dealer invoice? Huh? $555 destination fee is built into the MSRP. Rental insurance? You know your insurance company can provide this to you for some ridiculously low price as well.

$18k car

$2.2k some fee that you shouldn't have been charged

$1300 for gap insurance (you can get this elsewhere for 25% the cost)

$555 destination (Is built into the MSRP of the car)

$750 rental fees for breakdowns (my insurance adds this for like $2/month)

$1500 3yr extended warranty (again can be bought much cheaper else where).

Equals = $24,305

I don't want to be rude or anything, but I'd say you overspent by at least $4,000.

Even if you bought at MSRP

$18k - car

$400 - gap insurance

$24/yr - rental reimbursement from insurance company

$1000 - Just something I found real quick (I'm sure it could go much cheaper).

Andrew

 

[Kelley_B]

Well I plan on looking at both the EVO in January and the WRX and comparing the two and seeing which one I like better. With all the talk about the WRX's having problems, I am starting to look harder at the EVO, as I haven't read of many problems with the stock Lancer over at lancerforums.com

 

[John Garcia]

Of course the Lancer doesn't have any problems, it's an ECONOMY car. It isn't FI, it isn't AWD, it isn't atractive, it isn't much of anything.

DSM (Mitsu) has had more than their share of problems with the previous turbo Eclipses. These motors were crap, the most common problem seems to be head gaskets and cam "walk" because the bearings were not up to the task. I can't comment on the EVO though, because I have only heard good things about it.

Interesting tidbit: The turbo in the WRX is made by Mitsubishi.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Can someone please explain what "gap insurance" is? I've never heard this term before.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Can someone please explain what "gap insurance" is?

A waste of money. If you're upside-down on your loan (owe more than the car's worth) and you total your car, it pays the difference between the amount you still owe and the amount that the insurance company pays for the car.