Just bought a Denon 1600 and have a question.

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Jeff Adams, Jun 4, 2003.

  1. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Hello all, I just purchased this player and am very impressed. The picture quality is outstanding through the progressive scan output. My question is when it comes to the audio. I actually think I had my old player set up wrong, I had it set to PCM for Dolby Digital and DTS. And it sounded good but not as open and detailed as I was hoping. Now that I have the 1600 the sound is amazing, very open and detailed. What I have noticed is that some of the low frequency impact has now been lost with my new player. I have it set up to Downconversion "NO", DTS and DD Bitstream. Is this the correct set up? I am no expert in the different frequency range but when I say lost some of the low frequency impact, it is in the 40-90hz range. The very low frequency is still there 20-40hz shakes everything in my room. Some examples I have are In T2 where Arnold is shooting the mini gun at Cyberdyne. It sounds good does not have a lot of impact, in The Matrix where Neo is in the Helicopter and shooting the mini gun, once agin, sounds good but not a lot of impact. One more scene that I like to use for demo purposes is the end scene of Saving Private Ryan, all the shooting in that scene used to have a ton of impact. The audio sounds very detailed and clean but I want that 40-90 hz punch in the chest that I used to get with my JVC dvd player. The 1600 only has a toslink digital connection. I don't want to start this debate, but is it due to I am now using an optical toslink interconnect compared to the coax digital connect? What can be causing this? Any suggestions?
     
  2. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    You forgott to include the rest of the set up.
    Receiver, speakers,BM set up, sub etc.......
     
  3. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Lewis,
    The rest of my setup is
    1.Marantz SR-9200 7.1 A/V receiver
    2.PSB Image 6t's for the left and right fronts
    3.PSB Image 9C for center
    4.PSB Image 10's for surrounds
    5.PSB Stratus Mini's for rears
    6.PSB Subsonic3i for sub
    7.AAD C-10 for sub
    I have no bass management,just have everything set up through my receiver. So do you have any input on what happened to that mid level frequency impact?
     
  4. KenRen

    KenRen Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeff, et al,

    Just hooked up my new Denon 1600 last night and I have the exact same question. What happened to the 60-100 Hz?

    With the Denon 900 I replaced, I was rattling glasses in the kitchen cabinets!

    I'm using the Denon 3803, Energy speakers, and an SVS sub. Yes, the main speakers finally came alive and I don't need to turn up the amp volume (formerly -12 to -8) nearly as high to get listening volume (now about -20.)

    But, other than thuds, no low frequencies.

    Looks like Jeff and I are using our receivers to do the DTS and dolby decoding so I assume any of those DVD sound set-ups are for the discrete speaker output connections on the back of the DVD. (Why are they there anyway, who would use those if they have a HT receiver?)

    The SVS should be rocking. I bumped up the sub output on the Denon receiver to +9 and turned the SVS amp from 1/4 power to 1/2 power (which would have shattered glass with the Denon 900 I had) and virtually no change.

    I have bitstream on for both DTS and dolby and the late night mode is off. Anyone have suggestions?

    KenRen
     
  5. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Ken, I am glad I am not the only one that has noticed this problem. And I liked the way you put it, it does seem that all of my speakers have come alive with this new dvd player,all except the sub from 50-100hz. I have my dvd player set up the exact same way as you Ken. Bitstream with downconversion set to no. Do you have it set up with that cinema center channel? I do, and I like it. I also tried turning up the sub manually and from my receiver set up menu but have to turn it back down to where I had it due to the very low frequencies are too much but the upper ones are not there. I also wanted to ask you, have you tried doing a test tone from your dvd set up menu? The only sound I get is from the left and right speakers.
     
  6. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Somebody please help us!!!!!
     
  7. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    As this player is currently at the top of my list for finally getting into DVD-A, I'd like to know too!
     
  8. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Now don't get me wrong, this player is an excellent player. I watched Dazed and Confused last night which is not anamorphic and has very crappy audio. But the picture looked the best I have ever seen and the audio sounded alright too. I just want to know if there is anyway to get that lfe back in my system. If not, I might have to take this player back.
     
  9. KenRen

    KenRen Stunt Coordinator

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    Et al,

    OK, checked the 1600 settings again. Just wanted to make sure the dynamic compression feature was off. It is.

    Just ran the Avia calibration disk and most of the setting were exactly as with my DVD 900. (Did run the receiver at 0 dBm and set all channels to 85 on the rat shack meter)(Except the sub which I have always run a little hot, about 89 on the meter)

    The low frequency tone dropped from 200 hz to about 25 hz before it started to quiet, so no holes between main and sub.

    Back to a DVD, Shrek, and again, the SVS doesn't seem to be doing much except boom. I have bascially changed nothing except putting the 1600 in the loop and choosing the audio in as OPT 1 on the Denon.

    Is there something with the 1600 we are missing?

    KenRen
     
  10. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Thats what I am trying to find out. I have gone through everything in the setup menu and have found nothing new.
     
  11. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Have you tried using the 6CH analog out of the 1600, just for comparison to the DD/DTS decoders in your receiver? Of course, then you would have to deal with the 1600 BM, but it may be an interesting comparison.

    I don't have the 1600, so I don't know its quirks (if anyone wants to talk about quirks in the Pioneer 45A, I'm you man!).

    Seriously, if the 1600 is really sending the DD and DTS bit stream unmolested, I really can't fathom a guess as to why you are hearing this lack of impact.

    FWIW, there is a Denon factory rep that posts a lot at the AVS forum. There is also some discussion about the 1600. Might be good to try there if no one here has an answer.

    BGL
     
  12. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    If you use the digital connection then it should be the same,as your previous player.
     
  13. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Lewis,
    I have not changed anything. Only the connection between the dvd player and the receiver. I have not moved anything and have all my speakers set to small. When you said BM I was thinking along the lines of the Outlaw BM unit. Nothing is different other than my dvd player and connection. Lewis, can you answer this question, when I set up my dvd player I had to use the toslink connection so it is plugged into a different digital output. Output 4. Anyway my question is, the Marantz receiver has an option for DIGITAL.4 or DIGITAL AT4. Do you know what the difference is? I tried both ways and it sounds the same. Also, do you think I am noticing a difference in what I am hearing due to I now have my DD and DTS set to bitstream? On my JVC player I got no sound when it was set to bitstream so I switched it to PCM and left it alone.
     
  14. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Does the Marantz indicate what type of data it is receiving, and how many channels? Perhaps it is still not getting DD or DTS and thinks its 2CH PCM?

    I hope you get this sorted out. The 1600 is on my potential purchase list due to its outstanding Secrets video score. The damn thing is just about the equal of the vaunted RP82. I would not want to get great video but screwy audio.

    BGL
     
  15. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Brian,
    Yeah I have looked and my receiver is getting the full DD and DTS signal. I don't know what to think of this.
     
  16. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    I have a 1600 and do not have this problem. Maybe you should try adjusting the crossover in the receiver? It does sound as if you're not getting full DD/DTS, and no, coaxial or optical shouldn't make a difference in this case. If the problem persists, go over to the AVS forum and ask Jeff Talmadge from Denon what the problem is and he'll usually respond within a few days. It does really seem as if there is some problem in your player/receiver setup.

    Reg
     
  17. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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  18. TommyL

    TommyL Supporting Actor

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    hmm..weird..I have the 8200 marantz with a 1600 myself, and think it sounds great...just watched the first 10 minutes of LOTR EE, and it seemed normal...you say the lows are there..but nothing else...I shoudl throw in the matrix and see how it sounds...exactly what ppint are you saying there is nothing at in the movie? Are the spls down? give me some figures and I'll compare them to mine...we'll get it for ya!...let me know what scenes asap...tom
     
  19. TommyL

    TommyL Supporting Actor

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    fyi...just popped in the shooting spree(forgot about it when it kicks in like mad hell)...and the bullets shook me a bit ...so I'm good to go...if I can help at all, let me know..I'll check some settings etc for ya's...I am a bit bugged by the matrix in standard mode...frickin bars...have to get the damn rp-91 for some movies..lol...grrr...tom
     
  20. KenRen

    KenRen Stunt Coordinator

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    Moved to a new optical input on the 3803 and even turned the optical cable (Monster 200 series) around just for good measure.

    Watched Gladiator last night and the problem is very much there. I am familiar with this DVD and the opening battle was weak and the armored carriage rumble was gone.

    I listened to a Bocelli album also, the one I use for audio demos, Toscana. I actually put my ear on the SVS and during the very low freq parts there was vistally nothing coming out.

    Sub level on 3808 is +10, SVS amp 3/4. Doesn't help, there is nothing to amplify. (Before, 3803 at +3, SVS amp at 1/4)

    Something is up.

    The main speakers are very alive and smooth, even near the crossover freq of 80 Hz. But almost noting is going to the sub and no amount of jacking it up helps. Only thuds. Like something has a straggle hold on the LFE and other freqs the 3803 to sending to the sub.

    The 3803 worked flawlessly with my old panasonic and the DVD 900 I had until I upgrade (?) to the 1600.

    Just for grins, I also tried "no sub" on the 3803 and mains "large," taking to sub out of the loop. Same sound, strangled bass, except no quiet thuds from the sub.

    I am at my wits end. Bad Denon 1600?

    Thanks,
    KenRen
     

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