Just bought a 55 gal aquarium and stand...now what? (1 Viewer)

[Jay H]

Just FYI, with no fish in the tank, the bacteria will die off. They are there to
eat the fish waste, so with no food they will starve.

Not if you simply add ammonia to the tank in moderate quantities and the filter is running to provide air to the good bacteria.

Jay

 

[Drew Bethel]

Well, I just came back from Petco and they said I should be running my tank without fish for at least a week before adding fish. I asked if adding ammonia was necessary she said no. Anyway, going to the LFS tomorrow to get a second opinion.

 

[Philip_G]

I really would shy away from ANY advice from a petco, JMO.
their saltwater fish around here seem to have a shelf life of about 3 days, I "liberated" a naso tang from their tank last week. I have no business with a naso in my tank (they grow 12 inches and larger, but very slowly) but I coulnd't leave him there :frowning:

 

[Jay H]

Ditto what Philip says, I doubt the majority of fish store owners, this including the family owned ones have even heard of fishless cycling, since they're in the business of selling fish and it's not the traditional way of cycling a tank (read: uses less fish). I wouldn't mix fish and ammonia though. I would either go straight to fishless cycling with ammonia (non scented, usually the cheapest store brand you can buy) or go with fish, not both.

Jay

 

[Philip_G]

LFS owners can be hit or miss, around here they're not to great, most of them aren't up on some of the latest technology (for saltwater) but once in awhile you find a knowledgeable one, I try to support them when I can with my business.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

My comment about the bacteria was ammended by Jay. There has to be something for it to eat or it will die off quickly. I don't see any reason to leave the tank for a week unless you are fishless cycling. Until there is a bioload being created all you are doing is circulating water. The cycle only starts when you add ammonia or fish, preferably ammonia.

I would agree that most LFS aren't going to recommend fishless as the kill off from traditional cycling helps them sell more fish, and the weaker fish that result from an ammonia and nitrite spikes mean earlier fatalities for them as well. The LFS is there to sell you fish, not necessarily to keep the fish healthy and long-lived.

 

[Drew Bethel]

Took a sample of water to the LFS tonight and they measured a bit too much ammonia to add any fish - they told me to give it another week.

They also recommended I use a below-gravel to better harvest the bacteria. Any recommendations for a 55 gallon tank? I'm taking a look at Big Al's but would really appreicate some suggestions.

 

[Philip_G]

a below gravel what? filter?

 

[Drew Bethel]

Sorry, yes, a below gravel filter. But after reading this I'm having second doubts:
http://www.family-pet.com/Articles/buyingfishtank.htm
I prefer a power filter to an undergravel filter. The reason is that undergravel filters clog after ~18 months of operation and become detrimental to the aquarium. At that point you have to take everything out and clean under the filter and then start over. What’s more, pumps are just plain noisy. I don’t like noise. My personal preference for a filter is the penguin bio-wheel. The bio-wheel is a "hang-on power filter." What this means is that the filter hangs on the back of the tank. It has a lift tube that pulls water into the filter and then has an overflow that puts the water back into the tank. The system is run by a magnetic impeller assembly that pulls the water up the tube. It is very quiet, which is perfect for me.
All power filters use a pad of some sort that must be changed every month. Changing the pad consists of taking the old one out and putting the new one in. Hardly rocket science, but some people find that keeping a clean pad in the system a bit too much maintenance. If you are the type of person that feels that changing a pad once a month is too much work for you, go buy a plastic wind-up fish. This hobby really isn’t for you. As to why I prefer the Penguin bio-wheel? It contains this little wheel that turns as water overflows back into the tank. Basically it just provides more area for bacteria to grow on. In fact it provides lots more area as you get the whole surface area of the wheel, even though only a small section is ever in contact with the water. You can buy a bio-wheel of those for about $20, or for about $12 you can buy a cheaper power filter that will be just fine. Either way you won’t be paying any more or any less than you would be paying with a pump and undergravel filter, but you’ll get quieter more efficient filtration. Think about it. If you’d like to look at how aquarists rate different filters, check the filters buying guide.

 

[Philip_G]

exactly where I was going
undergravel filters usually aren't reccomended anymore, they really don't filter anything but simply suck all the crud down on the gravel.

 

[Jay H]

I have a Fluval 104 on my 20gal. It is a super quiet filter, in fact, it's in my bedroom and doesn't make a squeek. Haven't seen any of the bigger ones that would be for a 55gal though. It's easy to maintain, as it has a shut off valve where the tubes go in and out of the filter so to maintenance, all I have to do is unplug the filter, remove the tubes which automatically closes the valve, and do my maintenance. Because the tubes dont lose their water, you don't even have to prime the filter when you reconnect. I keep a spare set of sponges which I simply cycle with the ones in there after cleaning them. Then I'll replace the biological stuff once a year, not all at once, about 1/2 the quantity once a year. The Penguins are very good filters, I have also heard good stuff about the Magnum HOT which is a hang on tank filter but is similar to a canister in design. A prefilter on the intake tube also helps in keeping mulm out. Because I have live plants (one huge hearty Java Fern) I'm always getting runners into the intake tube, so the prefilter is a good idea.
I don't see many people at all, like Philip say, that recommend undergravel filters that much.
Drew, did you get them to measure nitrites, of course there will be ammonia in the tank, a normal cycled tank will have almost no measurable ammonia unless overstocked so initially you should start to see nitrite after a bit, then the ammonia should go towards zero and eventually you'll see nitrAte and then the nitrite will go towards zero. Two kinds of bacteria, one that converts to nitrite and one that converts to nitrate (something like nitrosoma and nitrobacter, but I'm only doing that from memory.)
Then you can go watch the DVD of "Aquaria" and relax
Jay

 

[Drew Bethel]

I do remember them saying that the nitrite level was fair...they would have sold me fish had the ammonia level been a little lower.
I also noted that the tank water has gotten noticeably more cloudy. This was after I got a little aggresive with the emzymes and probably added a little more than the recommended amount. However, I skipped emzymes yesterday but it still ashn't cleared up yet.

 

[Jay H]

Cloudy water, I believe isn't too uncommon when cycling, it's a bacteria bloom (free bacteria floating around) and is probably from the enzymes you've been adding. Not a worry and should clear up sooner or later..

I wouldn't add fish til you have practically zero nitrite and zero ammonia, forget the fish store's advice, both ammonia and nitrite are bad (and nitrate too in higher quantities)

Jay

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Jay's correct about the bacteria bloom. It will go away in a while. I wouldn't add any more enzymes.

Actually all of what Jay said! Wait until your readings are next to nil before adding fish. They'll thank you for it.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

With regards to the comments on the filters...

First, the UGF does not need to be taken down every 18 months if you do regular gravel vacuuming (which you should do anyway). Used with a powerhead, they work just fine for ages.

Second, while Penguins are great, they aren't completely quiet. You also have to be certain they are still working all the time. You don't have to change the filter every month, but you do need to clean it - preferably in spent tank water, so you don'tkill off any bacteria that are living on it.

As for the other hang on filters, the media in these IS the filter. You don't just throw them out every month, or you are back to stage one for your cycle. They need cleaning on a regular basis to get all the goop out, again in used tank water to prevent killing the bacteria.

 

[Drew Bethel]

Trying to decide if I should get the EMPEROR 400 FILTER (~$40)....or the PENGUIN 330 WITH BIO-WHEEL (~24.00).

Both prices are from BigAl's but I'm not sure if I also need to buy the filters with them.

Any thoughts?

PS. My current filter is an Aqua-Tech 30-60.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

You can never have too much filtration. The bio wheel has two functions, first is a filter/carbon, which needs cleaning once amonth and replacement every three months (optimally). The second is the wheel itself, which is where the bacteria work. This is never replaced. The main thing is to keep an eye on the biowheel and make sure it is turning, however slowly.

The pricing you are listing is wrong. For a 55, you'd want the Penguin 330 (~70), the Emperor is about $100. Both should come with one set of media (I know the Penguin does, but am not sure about the Emperor).

Also, since you are already cycling wiht the current filter, you can't swap these out without starting over. You should keep the current filter running while seeding the new filter.

 

[Drew Bethel]

Jeff, I just spoke with a customer service person at Bigal's and the price for the 400 is $39, plsu $6.00 shipping..and she said that includes everything (wheel, filters, etc). Have you checked the site?

Also, plan to add this additional filter on the tank so I won't be getting rid of the Aqua Tech. But I'm gonna skip the UGF.

 

[AaronJB]

Earlier in this thread I recommended the Golden Guarmi as a great fish - they'e usually mild-mannered and quite beautiful. In my case, a pair actually bred in my 10-gallon tank (the two fish were trying to wrap themselves around each other...we're starting at them going, "What are they doing?" then, "Ooohhh..."), resulting in quite a few successful youngsters. They are heavy eaters and grow quickly.
Here's a picture of one I found (although not the greatest quality pic).



Anyone who's looking to add a fish to their tank should look into these.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Yeah, that's where I got the pricing from. The only models for the Emporer they have are $75 and $100 (400). Same with the pricing on the Penguin 330 (Price: $67.99 ASWO#5663).

Emperor: Price: $99.99 ASWO#5665

The Penguin mini is $28, which is for a 10G. I'm running a 170 on a 25G.

If you can get either of these for $60 off, go for it!