Just a couple of off-the-wall questions (1 Viewer)

[Bill Griffith]

Glad everyone agrees. The question is worded correctly.

How about this, your parents give you money to buy a car (or you give your kid moeny to buy a car). Did your parents pay for the car or did you. I bet you if your parents were right next to you and you told some people you just paid for that new car, your parents would have something to say about it.

We as the tax payers shouldn't say yes the corporations pay there taxes. That would be like your parents saying you paid for the car, or your kids saying they paid for the car.

 

[BrettB]

How about this, your parents give you money to buy a car (or you give your kid moeny to buy a car). Did your parents pay for the car or did you. I bet you if your parents were right next to you and you told some people you just paid for that new car, your parents would have something to say about it.

We as the tax payers shouldn't say yes the corporations pay there taxes. That would be like your parents saying you paid for the car, or your kids saying they paid for the car.

For this analogy to work in regards to the original corporate tax question instead of asking "Did your parents pay for the car or did you." you would need to ask "Do teenagers buy cars?"

You're fighting a losing battle here.

 

[RobertR]

your parents give you money to buy a car (or you give your kid moeny to buy a car). Did your parents pay for the car or did you.

The analogy doesn't work, because corporations don't receive money from people as a gift. It involves an exchange of money for goods or services.

It would be as if the son worked for his father's company and earned money in exchange for the work he did. In that case, you couldn't say his father "paid" for the car any more than the place you work for paid for your car.

 

[Michael Pineo]

Well, if the question is worded correctly and the answer is still no, then the answer to "Do U.S. citizens pay taxes?" would also be no.

I think this is the better analogy. A child mows the lawn for 10 years. His parents pay him each time he mows the lawn and he puts all of that money in the bank. Eventually he withdraws the money and buys a car. Who paid for the car?

The answer to the question worded in that manner is the child paid for the car. If you want to ask where did he get the money to pay for the car, then you could say he got it from his parents. Or would you say he got it from his parents' employers, because that is where the parents got the money from? Then again, his parents' employers got the money from their customers, so I guess that the child's parents' employers' customers paid for the car.

Bottom line seems to be that everyone agrees that corporations pass on their costs (taxes included) to their customers, but that is not the question that was asked.

MikeP

 

[BrianB]

Bottom line seems to be that everyone agrees that corporations pass on their costs (taxes included) to their customers, but that is not the question that was asked.

Exactly, Michael.

 

[Dave Poehlman]

Doesn't Coke pay sales tax on their raw materials (ie: caramel coloring,caffiene)? >BANG< they just paid taxes. Passing that cost on to the consumer is what we call trying to make a profit... which is how our capitalistic economy works and how Coke can stay in business.

 

[BrianW]

I'm no lawyer but I think you're wrong. While current laws may be ambiguous enough to get a lot of corporate crooks off the hook, I'm sure that more than a few have served jail time for tax evasion.

Roger, with respect, I believe you're the one who's mistaken. The Sainato brothers aren't doing any jail time at all. Their corporation is doing all the jail time, and it's just passing that jail time along to the Sainato brothers.

Don't you get it yet?

 

[RogerB]

Brian,

Finally! Someone who makes sense.



Danny,

That was my point. Corporations pay their taxes and stay out of jail.

 

[Robert F. O'Connor]

Dave, no, they don't pay sales taxes on their raw materials. If you are going to ultimately resell something, you don't have to pay sales tax on it (that is, if you have a business license). They do have to pay sales tax on stuff like office supplies.

In the age of EBay, I'm sure someone can find here one of (many) the fundamental flaws in the concept of sales taxes.

By the way, if taxes on dividends paid out by corporations to stockholders (to the extent that those dividends come out of taxed corporate profits) constitute double taxation, why don't sales taxes paid by consumers out of their already taxed income not constitute double taxation?

-Robert

 

[Ryan Wright]

I'm no lawyer but I think you're wrong.

Huh. That's the second time in as many years. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Bill Griffith]

Maybe someone can explain this than. If Corporate tax went away would the cost of a product eventually go down.

or to word it another way. If corporate taxes went away and they kept their prices the same wouldn't they be making more profit?

If the answer to both of these questions is yes (which I can't think of a reason it wouldn't be) than that would mean that there is some amount of extra money beyond profit and beyond the cost of the product that the consumer pays for. Therefore your paying for the product and the profit that the company makes and your throwing in a little extra money so that the company can cover its taxes.

so your giving them money for nothing, just like you would be giving your kid money for nothing to go buy a car.

On another note I would just like to thank everyone for being so civil in this discussion. I realize no one is going to change there stance on this but its nice to see another point of view. Even if it is wrong

 

[Dave Poehlman]

than that would mean that there is some amount of extra money beyond profit and beyond the cost of the product that the consumer pays for.

How do you expect corporations to pay taxes then? Where is the money to come from if not from the sale of goods and services? When you buy that can of Coke, you're paying a little bit of all of that company's expenses (electric bill, legal fees, marketing, the cost of manufacturing the product, taxes, the gas for the lawn mower that mows the corporate golf course... all of it) Their in business to make money... if they get taxed, it comes out of the money they make... that's it... it's that simple.

I don't understand your underlying point. Are you asking that corporations not be taxed or are you asking that they find money elsewhere to pay their taxes? And where would that elsewhere be do you propose?

Or did you just come up short recently buying a can of Coke?

 

[Patrick Larkin]

We as the tax payers shouldn't say yes the corporations pay there taxes. That would be like your parents saying you paid for the car, or your kids saying they paid for the car.

So how do corporations pay "their" taxes then? Some magical corporate tax fund created by taking donations from the employees? I can't believe this discussion is still going on!

 

[Keith Mickunas]

If corporations don't pay taxes because they pass the cost to the consumer, then corporations don't pay anything, right? So the consumers pay for materials, salaries, and all other expenses. Thus corporations are raking in all this money, and not paying for anything. How unfair!

Taxes, just like any other expense of doing business, are added into the cost of the product. That only makes sense.

 

[RogerB]

I realize no one is going to change there stance on this but its nice to see another point of view.

Ummmm.....you're the only one destined to change his stance. Good luck!

 

[Bill Griffith]

I'd feel better if corporations weren't taxed.

 

[RobertR]

I'd feel even better if I weren't taxed.

 

[Bill Griffith]

so whats your outlook on getting rid of Income tax and imposing a National Sales Tax?

 

[Ryan Wright]

so whats your outlook on getting rid of Income tax and imposing a National Sales Tax?

My outlook is political, which would get this thread closed. Let's drop this question now before that happens.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Good move!

This has been interesting to read. Stay on the straight and narrow and see what more you guys come up with.