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Joker (2019 Movie) (1 Viewer)

Brandon Conway

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You can rationalize things all you want to Brandon; it doesn't change my opinion of what's happening with the DCEU, and I'm not alone.

Your rationalization for your cynicism is no more valid than mine for my optimism. I'm interested in this film, and you are not. And the world turns on.....
 

Tino

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the only "solo" first film that doesn't explain the origins/history of the character is Spider-Man: Homecoming. Every other one does: Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Thor,
The Incredible Hulk is not an origin film. It was a sequel to Ang Lee’s Hulk...which was the origin film (and the better of the two imo).
 

Sean Bryan

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The Incredible Hulk is not an origin film. It was a sequel to Ang Lee’s Hulk...which was the origin film (and the better of the two imo).

Wrong on both counts. ;)

But seriously, it wasn’t a sequel to The Hulk. The opening credits gives us an entirely different backstory and origin for how Bruce became the Hulk.

As for the quality, that of course gets into personal option vs fact, but my opinion on that one is that Lee’s Hulk was hot garbage.
 

Tino

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Wrong on both counts. ;)

But seriously, it wasn’t a sequel to The Hulk. The opening credits gives us an entirely different backstory and origin for how Bruce became the Hulk.

As for the quality, that of course gets into personal option vs fact, but my opinion on that one is that Lee’s Hulk was hot garbage.
I disagree on both counts. :D

While not a direct sequel, it definitely picks up threads from Lee’s film.

Haven’t seen it since it came out so I’ll rewatch my UHD copy to see if my memory is correct.

But I stand by my opinion that Lee’s film is vastly superior..and was more successful at the boxoffice adjusted for inflation.
 

Sam Favate

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I recently re-watched both Hulk films, and I enjoyed Incredible much more than Ang Lee's. Lee's film was dull in places, while the MCU film kept moving along at a nice pace. I asked my kids - to whom I showed both films - what they thought, and one said, "I like the one with the Abomination and where he was in Brazil. The other one was boring."
 

Sean Bryan

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I disagree on both counts. :D

While not a direct sequel, it definitely picks up threads from Lee’s film.

Haven’t seen it since it came out so I’ll rewatch my UHD copy to see if my memory is correct.

But I stand by my opinion that Lee’s film is vastly superior..and was more successful at the boxoffice adjusted for inflation.

Not sure how you can say it is a sequel when The Incredible Hulk depicted a completely different version of Banner’s origin.

Hulk


The Incredible Hulk (first 40 seconds or so)

EDIT: I don’t know why this won’t play on here, but just go to YouTube and search for “Incredible Hulk opening”

Similar events, sure, but two completely different and separate depictions with Hulk being more of an accident and Incredibe Hulk being more of a controlled experiment gone wrong. And of course, in Hulk Banner doesn’t transform in the Hulk until later. In The Incredibke Hulk, you can see that he transformed into the Hulk as soon as the gamma exposure occurred in the lab, sending Betty to the hospital. Didn’t happen in Hulk.

If it was a sequel to Hulk they wouldn’t need to show an origin in the opening. If they wanted to show the origin in the opening just as an artistic choice or reminder of the “first film” (like with Spider-Man 2) then they wouldn’t have shown a completely different version of it. They did a “credits origin” so that they could do an abbreviated origin without having to spend time on it in the main body of the movie and also to show that this was different version of the character/story from Lee’s Hulk (for those who saw that).

Then there is the location. Ang Lee’s Hulk takes place in Nevada or New Mexico (or some such “deserty” state). And the accident that turned Banner happened there as well. In The Incredible Hulk, the experiment was conducted at Culver University in Virginia.

I remember when the movie was coming out, they seemed to dance around the question of is this a reboot or a sequel with comments saying it is more of a “soft reboot”.

I think some involved didn’t want to come right out and completely dismiss Lee’s Hulk for those that liked it. So you can maybe think it is a follow up if you are looking with one eye, squinting , aren’t looking too closely, and haven’t seen “Hulk” in years. But it’s definitely not and never has been part of Feige’s MCU.

From Wikipedia:
Marvel felt it would be better to deviate from Ang Lee's style to continue the franchise, arguing his film was like a parallel universe one-shot comic book, and their next film needed to be, in Kevin Feige's words, "really starting the Marvel Hulk franchise"

But anyway I think it’s pretty definitive. Different origins, not a sequel.
 
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Tino

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It’s all a matter of perspective. I see it as a indirect sequel to a superior original film.
 

Brandon Conway

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My point was that The Incredible Hulk still recaps how he became the Hulk in the film itself, even if they do it via short montage and some casual dialogue peppered through the film. This is different from Spider-Man: Homecoming, which never directly references how Peter got his powers or anything regarding Uncle Ben's death.
 

Tommy R

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Just thought I'd throw my two cents in and say Ang Lee's Hulk is a masterpiece while The Incredible Norton is the worst film of the MCU by far.
 

Malcolm R

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How do Thomas Wayne and the Joker occupy the same time period? Didn't Wayne die many years before the Joker arrived on the scene?
 

Thomas Newton

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How do Thomas Wayne and the Joker occupy the same time period? Didn't Wayne die many years before the Joker arrived on the scene?

When Thomas Wayne was alive, the man who would become The Joker might have been active as a no-name thug, or even as the Red Hood. He wouldn't become The Joker until he fell into a huge vat of chemicals while fleeing the Batman.

Maybe Thomas Wayne's appearances will be flashbacks to Bruce's past – having nothing to do with The Joker. I hate to think that the movie makers would pull the same "I created you; no, you created me" stunt as the first Tim Burton movie.
 

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