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Discussion in 'Movies' started by joshEH, Apr 27, 2018.
Wow, they really started something when they killed his dog, didn't they.
Honestly, this is the thing that pretty much murdered the first film for me when I watched it. I thought if they can't come up with something better than that to kick this thing off...well...then this is going to be some truly godawful writing/storytelling. And it basically was. It does not take long in the first film to discover the writing/story is not at all the point of the film. They are only looking to create a series of action set pieces.
So, on first watch, for me anyway, my thought was this film is incredibly dumb. However, watching some interviews with the filmmakers I realized "OK, they pretty much meant for the picture to be simplistic and not very clever." it is all about staging the action scenes...this is where all their effort goes and it was no small effort.
This is why I liked the second film much, much more. Yes, it also is about staging a series of action set pieces but it also digs into the so called "world building" where we get an idea of the size and scale of the Wick universe. The first film really has one good idea in it and that's this secret hotel for assassins. Beyond that everything else is basically horrible regurgitation of overused dumb clichés. I think that in a lot of the pictures of recent vintage keeping things at that level of "super simplistic" is the goal. They don't want to confuse the audience, they don't want you to have to think at all about why a character is doing something...so they make the reason so simple and gigantic you could never possibly miss it. It is basically the formula for every one of these Marvel pictures and that is the most popular concept in the marketplace right now.
I personally have a theory about this and that is this kind of thing always works better if the filmmakers embrace the stupidity and ridiculousness of what they are making in these sort of films. If they try to play it as serious in any way...well...then it comes across as way too idiotic. The perfect example for me is Prometheus versus Alien Covenant. Prometheus makes the fatal mistake of attempting to act as if it is actually serious much of the time but Covenant embraces how batshit ridiculous it is and because of that...well...it's a far better film, in my opinion.
To me when I watched Wick 1 it came across as if they just were not quite certain how the whole thing would play because I think they knew outside of the action they did not have much of a film. In Wick 2 they took the one good idea from Wick 1 and used it to create an entire world around the character...and to me it worked. Is it based on the Bond model? Sure, but that has also been working since the 1960s and works in the Mission Impossible films.
So sure, it is that same key idea...you have this one person facing ridiculous odds but he still triumphs and makes an impossible escape but hey, if you do that right it is fun and has been fun for years. Wick takes the Bond thing and makes it far more violent and sure the age old question always occurs to me while watching a guy in a nicely tailored suit doing wild fight scenes...how come his suit never tears? I remember watching the Wild Wild West and wondering how a guy in such a tight suit never had his pants or jacket split open while doing all those moves...and Wick brings that back in spades.
Because I know if I am wearing a nicely tailored suit the last thing I am going to want to do in it is a bunch of crazy martial arts moves...I would tear the thing to shreds. That's movie magic for you though!
His suit is made of bullet resistant material, so it's not your ordinary suit.
It's not about the dog per se, but what the dog represented to Wick.
I'm looking forward to the fourth film in which Wick and his allies takes down the "High Table". Also, I assume they'll going to show Halle Berry's daughter in danger so Wicks will have to honor his blood marker to Berry. One last thing, I think Winston's apparent double cross to Wick was a calculated move by Winston to get Wick out of there alive with the help of Charon and The Bowery King.
I need to get one of these!
Yes, I have a severe weakness about violence against women, children, or animals. So, I was not thrilled with the "kill the cute puppy" thing and really I think they should have put some more thought into how Wick gets entangled with the Russian bad guys. I mean in the first Wick the guy that kill's his dog and steals his car is obviously no match for John Wick. So, I think what they should have done is just have Wick have a run in with him right at the start and Wick kills the guy and his body guards triggering the big bad Russian Mafia poppy to send everybody he can muster after Wick to kill him. They could have done that and left the dog out of it.
Well, I love dogs too, but it's only a movie and it's a violent fantasy at that.
I know, I just felt like they went that route for all the wrong reasons. They wanted to manipulate us to make us feel that guy should be killed because he was so awful he would kill a cute puppy. The truth is, for me, it just pissed me off and took me out of the film. I mean, there are all kinds of reasons to kill somebody you don't have to kill a cute puppy or stomp an infant to death to justify the idea you should be offed.
Wick could have been driving back from his wife's funeral, the urn holding his wife's ashes in the car with him. That smarmy little Russian gangster brat could have opened the door of his car and smashed the urn scattering John's wife's ashes all over a gas station parking lot...I would have killed him for that.
Well, I'm not going to debate this particular plot point with you as it's kind of pointless because you feel, what you feel about it and the same applies to me. Also, neither one of us are going to change our POV. By the way, movies are made to manipulate their viewing audience.
My take was he had a choice: re-enlist, or die there. He didn't want to die, so he had to tell them he was signing up again. There was a price to pay and he paid it, all to be able to walk out of there, get back to NY and do what he does.
Interested to see what you think after the second viewing. I enjoyed it. The humor added something to the movie. Just enough without overdoing it. The two hours flew by.
To me it was the theft of the Mustang! That’s another motivation for Wick. ( Disclosure, I’m a Vintage Mustang owner. )
I liked the first movie. The second I agree did a great job of building the world of the assassins. I wonder what happens when Wick prevails at the end of the third film. Does he take over the Hotel, does he retire.
Please be careful about spoilers as this is opening weekend and the only thread discussing this film.
IMO, he was back to square one so why go all the way to the desert to do so. Perhaps, it was the target he was given that changed his mind about going through with his re-enlistment.
After the second viewing, I just think it's was a plot point to involve another character and
set up the next movie.
I'm seriously thinking of seeing this again in a Dolby Cinema theater as an A-List selection. I'm doing so more out of curiosity to my Dolby Atmos experiences. My first viewing was in a Dolby Atmos theater, but I thought the audio was lacking compared to my second Dolby Atmos viewing in a different and newer theater with a lower ceiling. Don't all Dolby Atmos theaters suppose to have the same number of speakers? If so, maybe, it's the height of the theater's roof that is affecting my audio perception. Perhaps, it's just me as my first viewing was at night and my second viewing was in mid-morning when I was more alert for sure.
By the way, nobody has mentioned Halle Berry's performance in this film and I think she did well in it for a 52 year old woman and those action sequences. Also, loved her dogs!
Actually I just came back to do so. Way earlier in this thread I said my only reservation was I didn't want Jinx Halle Berry from Die Another Day, and boy was she no where near Jinx. She worked her tail off and I enjoyed her scenes a lot.
I'm trying to be vague to avoid any spoilers. I think he was hoping to make the case that he was retired to the top guy and wanted to get the bounty placed on him in the second film cancelled so he could go back to his life before the events from the first two movies. Going out there to make his case was the only way he could see to get back to square one.
She did well and the scenes between the two of them and the dogs were the highlight of the film. Not only is she 52, but Keanu is 54 or 55. I bet there was a lot of aspirin and Bengay used on the set!
More likely lots of CG and body doubles.
I will have to go back to my Atmos info. I know that not all theaters have the same number of speakers. A larger auditorium can have more than a smaller one. The Atmos processor determines where to place the specific objects (sounds) based on the number of speakers and their location in the auditorium.