Joe Six-Pack came to my garage sale today (1 Viewer)

[Jerry Gracia]

is it necessary to be so militant?

Tell that to a director/cinematographer who's hands are tied to this vile practice.
Also, ask this same question to the millions of Joe Six Packs out there who demand to have films fill their screens, or even WALMART...their attitudes are militant my friend.
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LuvLBX

 

[Samuel Des]

Again, I'm on your side. I was just a little surprised about tearing up someone elses' money. There are probably more persuasive tactics.
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SAM

 

[Jerry Gracia]

Samuel...yeah, ripping up other peoples money to prove a point sounds unbelievable...grounds to start a fist fight, I think.
Cheers, carry on.
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LuvLBX

 

[Keith_R]

I'm with everyone here on preserving OAR and not losing picture, director's intent, and resolution to P&S, but honestly look at what you guys are saying!!

I mean I'm educated about OAR but I'm really beginning to think this has gone far enough. The so-called "J6P's" that everyone refers to here are just ordinary people like you or me and they have their own preference (in this case P&S to letterbox)and I personally feel that it is not right to bash them just because they don't see things your way. I don't know if it occured to anyone here but not everyone is in to home theater, and futhermore they may not have the money to buy a nice WS T.V. As far I'm concerned let these "J6P's" enjoy movies the way they want too see them that's what this hobby is all about right!? the privilege of being able to enjoy your favorite movies in your own home the way you want to see them. let J6P do the same thing. Personally I really don't see that it is our duty or job to sway them away from P&S let them make their own choices. Honestly some of the things you are saying and doing just make some of you seem like bullies (ie. the dollar bill story, that wasn't right.) I know I'm likely to get flamed for writing this post but I really think this should be addressed.
-Keith-

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

I think what's get up everyone's ire is that the preference for pan & scan is most-times made out of ignorance and mis-information.
Just as widescreen enthusiasts have converted people to the cause through speech and demonstration, think of all these jokers spreading the gospel of "widescreen cuts off the tops and bottoms, it sucks" to their friends.
We've seen on this forum how public opinion can shape a studio's actions. Think of how they might act if a clear majority unfairly torpedoed the widescreen format.
Todd.
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"He'll flip you, flip you for real."

 

[Jerry Gracia]

Keith,
I completely underdtand where you're coming from, however...the choice of a movie's aspect ratio is already chosen by the film makers, not you and not me and not anyone else, period.
I own a 4:3 set, btw.
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LuvLBX

 

[Samuel Des]

Hi Jerry,
Again, I think I speak for Keith when I say that we are on your side regarding OAR and the issues surrounding it on DVD.
We do *not* debate the superiority or the desirability of "doing it right." Like you, we argue *for* Ebert's "rewarding those in the know." We do *not* want original aspect ratio presentations to disappear because a less-educated public prefers P&S. We *agree* that education/campaigning to preserve the correct presentation is an important way to prevent P&S forced down our throats.
We're just trying to point out a civility issue. That's really about it. I realize a lot of these posts are just posturing, but my goodness! Let's remember that as HT "ambassadors" (if you like), we should teach, not berate. Sure, we're doing other people a favour -- even if they don't know it. But the value of the favour is obscured if you bully someone into accepting it.
There's another issue here that I think Keith is trying to point out. I cringe and am embarassed for my friends here on HTF when I read the obvious contempt many have for "J6P" (as s/he is so derisively dubbed). It is easy to take this high road alone. It is difficult to have the patience to show the other person how to take that high road with you. (And I know that some of you have been patient, even with me.)
Film can be a humbling and magnificant experience. But people -- however poorly you regard them -- are more important. We shouldn't lose sight of that as we pursue our hobby.
Best,
Sam
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SAM

 

[John GB]

Joe: No, man, they cut off the top and the bottom of the picture and give you this skinny image that's really hard to see.

I'll bet anything this guy had the DVD player setup for a 16 X 9 display. Any anamorphic DVD he plays will be distorted "Tall and Skinny"

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[Alex Johnson]

wow - i think i'm with keith and samuel on this one.
a
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visit neverville

 

[Bill Corbett]

Excellent posts by Keith and Samuel. I'm inclined to believe that there's a good bit of fiction to the stories related above.
Bottom line: some people have different tastes. If they like something that you don't, deal with it.

 

[Kenny Foor]

Ya know what I say in times like this? Give it a little more time. A few years ago I started collecting laser discs and my dad was a regular J6P like many others but when I started buying his favs on the format it took a good 45 minutes to an hour for him to realize the movie he was watching was OAR ( he doesn't see very well) after a few years I went to DVD and he dosen't mind very much any more, in fact, when I bought the Die Hard Ultimate Collection and showed him the why widescreen section of the disc he just never relly knew that was the whole process of what a movie goes through when it goes to P&S so now he likes it.

 

[GregMT]

Yeah...like this one J6P with a superhot wife came into the Walgreens where, you know, we sell select DVD "favorites" and started complaining to her that the box said widescreen. I hurried out from behind the camera counter and said: "Hey, man. Widescreen is the way to go. If you don't like it, maybe you should go back to ree to reel tape recorders."
He looked at me for a second and then turned to his wife and said, "C'mon, honey. We can probably get these movies somewhere else. I like the 7.99 price, but maybe if I pay 15 I'll get the whole picture."
"You are getting the whole picture! If you buy the fullscreen version, you're ruining the creative vision of the director!"
"Uh..yeah. I'm gonna go."
"Listen buddy," I said to him, grabbing him by the shirt. "You're not getting out of here until you promise me you'll tell all your friends to support widescreen."
"Get your hands off me you little--"
But before he could finish, I had flipped him over my shoulder and slammed him back and forth on the ground like Droopy Dawg used to do when he got po'ed. His superhot wife ran to me and I took her in my arms. "You're my hero," she said.
I put my foot triumphantly on J6P's chest and said, "I'm just a guy who believes in what I believe in."
fin

 

[Jerry Gracia]

You guys seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying.
So I will say no more.
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LuvLBX
[Edited last by Jerry Gracia on August 10, 2001 at 01:19 PM]

 

[Jerry Gracia]

Bottom line: some people have different tastes. If they like something that you don't, deal with it.

If you don't like rock music and I do, fine.
If you don't like vanilla ice cream and I do, fine.
If you don't like black bars on widescereen movies, that's your problem...that's the way the movie was meant to be seen. It's not my opinion, its a fact. It has nothing to do with tastes.
You either respect the art in film making and watch movies the way they are *supposed* to be watched or you don't, its really that simple.
The following words have no business being mentioned in a widescreen debate:
Choice
Option
Taste
The film makers had the option to select their aspect ratio of choice (1.85, 2.35) and frame their shots according to THEIR tastes.
People like you and me have no business wanting modified versions of films just so that our display device can be filled with picture, its not our decision to make wether we like it or not.
That is all I'm saying.
Can we agree on that?
Choice and option have no business being in the hands of the viewer, only the film makers.
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LuvLBX

 

[Charles J P]

If you don't like rock music and I do, fine.
If you don't like vanilla ice cream and I do, fine.

Of course to take it a little further, my fiance puts a brownie in a dish, puts vanilla ice cream on it, tops it fudge topping, and then microwaves it a bit because her teeth are sensative to cold.
So she changes it to fit her taste, but when shes done you dont really have vanilla ice cream any more do you?
Follow me?
How about this... what if I went around telling people how much I like the opera in order to sound sophisticated, but really I took a pair of headphones and listened to Jimmy Buffet. Sure I am at the opera, but I am not even hearing what I am supposed to be hearing. Just like P&S isnt seeing what your supposed to see. Sure I can take the headphones if I want, but maybe I should just not go to the opera if I'm annoyed by it. I know this is getting to be a stretch but stay with me. So J6P can take his P&S, but he CANT claim to be a movie fan or anything like that if he gets annoyed with black bars. And to make matters worse, what J6P does is closer to taking a boom box to the opera and forcing everyone else to listen to Jimmy Buffet. Because he is the majority and because the studios want to please the majority, he is forcing us into a P&S world.
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Paradigm Lover

 

[Tom Ryan]

Of course to take it a little further, my fiance puts a brownie in a dish, puts vanilla ice cream on it, tops it fudge topping, and then microwaves it a bit because her teeth are sensative to cold.
So she changes it to fit her taste, but when shes done you dont really have vanilla ice cream any more do you?

A more accurate analogy would be that your fiancee prefers ice cream without, say, milk, or some other vital ingredient.
-Tom

 

[Jeff Rogers]

I hate vanilla ice cream
Whoever disagrees with me is ruining the cow's true vision

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If I could go back in time, I'd meet Snoopy

 

[DaveF]

A more accurate analogy would be that your fiancee prefers ice cream without, say, milk, or some other vital ingredient.

Yeah, we got that: Sherbet & non-fat ice-cream.
I will have none of it, however! I believe in OAF (Original Aspect Flavor)!

 

[Samuel Des]

! I believe in OAF (Original Aspect Flavor)!

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SAM

 

[Mark Kalzer]

I do respect the fact that a great majority are un-informed about the benefits of widescreen. I understand that most hate the black bars because they don't understand.
The thing that really irk me, is that we have to put up with this in the first place. Way back when the first movie was presented on a TV screen, someone made the stupid decision to cut off part of the picture in order to fill the TV screen, and that practice has been dubbed "standard" ever since. If they simply went with widescreen from the start, everyone would understand and would be used to widescreen. We wouldn't even have to put up with this pan n' scan crap.
What also annoys me, is those who refuse to accept the benefits, and in fact, are forcing it upon us. Those who demand that their screens be filled. I can tolerate widescreen and pan 'n scan co-existing, but unfortunantly, some want to see widescreen dissapear forever, with titles like Space Jam and Willy Wonka already ditching widescreen.