What's new

Joan of Arcadia Ongoing thread (1 Viewer)

Ken Chan

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 11, 1999
Messages
3,302
Real Name
Ken
It's not that she decided not to do it, it's that she couldn't figure out a way to do it, and early on, she didn't understand why. But when the reason became clear, she acted rashly to accomplish the task.

Joe also had to do something uncomfortable -- take the shooter to court -- for the right reasons, and potentially suffer the consequence.

Not that neat this week :)

//Ken
 

Patrick Sun

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1999
Messages
39,659
Well, Joan got sidetracked with wondering perhaps it's the devil making her do something she considered bad (like when she asks Grace's father and the priest about the issue). I don't begrudge her her confusion. To pull one from the Matrix films, Joan couldn't see past her choices. :)
 

Adam Lenhardt

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Messages
26,956
Location
Albany, NY
As someone who proposed they introduce Satan, but worried about the show losing it's religious ambuiguity (ie, making one specific faith the right one) I think they handled it brilliantly. As always, in Joan's world and ours, things aren't nearly as simple as we want them to be.
 

Patrick Sun

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1999
Messages
39,659
11/21/03 "St. Joan"

This was a really good tight episode, with strong parallels to the inspiration of the show, while also showing that it's never too late to learn and share and inspire.

When Joan thought the therapist was God, and did the whole wink-wink routine, that was very cute and adorable.

Now the end was also pretty gut-wrenching.
 

Glenn Overholt

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 24, 1999
Messages
4,201
I think she wimped out. If I had to take a test over, I'd cut a deal with them. Even if it was just canceling the other suspensions.

Glenn
 

Adam Lenhardt

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Messages
26,956
Location
Albany, NY
Joan's world is getting pretty bleak, I must say. I do love the aspect of her character that so readily accepts her own unhappiness after seeing what she has inspired in the teacher. I love her empathy, and I loved the way they switched things up on the formula of rebellion and taking the hard path. Peer rejection is always harder than a suspension or academic punishment.
 

Patrick Sun

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1999
Messages
39,659
I really hate Price most of the times.

Is there anyway they can move the Girardi family from Arcadia and still keep the name of the show?
 

Adam Lenhardt

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Messages
26,956
Location
Albany, NY
12/13/03 - This episode hit me harder than any in recent memory, to the point where the ending had me in tears. Part of the brilliance of the episode was the wonderful, ambiguous characterization of Ramsey, slow yet sensitive while violent. This was necessary to allow the end to flower; God's explanation to Joan was just so powerful, especially in light of events from the past few years. To believe that one person just caring enough to give a damn could make the difference, it's beautiful and heartbreaking.
 

MattBu

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
186
I hope you dont think this is a thread crap Adam, but tonights episode was one of my LEAST favorites. The last 3 episodes this show has deteriorated into an after school special. God started off as enigmatic and while omnipresent, unrepresentative of any one faith. Lately though this has obviously been a Christian God and his message has been loud and clear. This episode was also missing the interesting side stories that earlier episodes have featured. I appreciated Luke getting his first kiss, but there was NO discussion of it whatsoever. I hope they go back to what made this show so watchable and that was the interplay between Joan and God, she now just seems like his Robot.
 

Roberto Carlo

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
445
Lately though this has obviously been a Christian God and his message has been loud and clear.
I respectfully disagree. Obviously, the depiction of God in JOA is the product of western monotheism but that's about as specific as it goes.

I also enjoyed tonight's episode. Lately, Joan's "assignments" have been harder and harder and it's great to watch her growing comprehension of just how little she understands about the nature of things.
 

Adam Lenhardt

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Messages
26,956
Location
Albany, NY
Lately though this has obviously been a Christian God and his message has been loud and clear.
I don't really see where you get this. There's been no Jesus, or any references more than ironic ones to anything New Testement. You say that it's the Christian God because of the sacrifices God's asking of Joan, but I would say that's the case with many of the prophets from the Old Testement as well.
 

MattBu

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
186
I respectfully disagree. Obviously, the depiction of God in JOA is the product of western monotheism but that's about as specific as it goes.
The reason I say that it's a Christian theology being depicted is because there is no Satan in Judaism, Jews also don't believe in Hell.

Yet in the past two episodes there have been references specifically to Satan though they are veiled as an Evil counterpart to God. I have a minor in religious studies, and I can't think of a Western Religion which contains one specific evil body except Christianity.

The two examples that specifically support my viewpoint (In my opinion) are:

1)The episode in which Joan isn't sure whether God is God and that he might in fact be Satan. God specifically refers to Satan as a person and not an entity, referring to Satan as "Him".

2)In last nights episode God/Goth Guy is looking through a book of Rennaisance art and fingers a picture of Satan as he speaks about someone losing their light and completely turning into a Monster. Which I believe is his way of expressing that upon death they will go to Hell.

I mean granted they haven't used the Terminology of anything SPECIFICALLY Christian though the words "Evil" get pretty darned close, even though Grace Park's father uses the same term when Joan goes to him, the Rabbi claims that Evil is an internal struggle - whereas God has specifically referred to being as completely evil.
 

Adam Lenhardt

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Messages
26,956
Location
Albany, NY
I mean granted they haven't used the Terminology of anything SPECIFICALLY Christian though the words "Evil" get pretty darned close, even though Grace Park's father uses the same term when Joan goes to him, the Rabbi claims that Evil is an internal struggle - whereas God has specifically referred to being as completely evil.
Like so many things in this shows, that was merely two seperate viewpoints as to what evil is. The show didn't make any motions to suggest that the priest or the rabbi was correct. Incidentally, I think Joan got much more out of the Rabbi's take since it was far more encompassing. The show definitely walks the line, but I think atleast thus far it has deftly avoided crossing it.
 

MattBu

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
186
Like so many things in this shows, that was merely two seperate viewpoints as to what evil is. The show didn't make any motions to suggest that the priest or the rabbi was correct. Incidentally, I think Joan got much more out of the Rabbi's take since it was far more encompassing. The show definitely walks the line, but I think atleast thus far it has deftly avoided crossing it.
I completely agree, as a staunch Atheist if I felt it had crossed the line I would be watching something else and not participating in our JOA love fest here.
 

Ken Chan

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 11, 1999
Messages
3,302
Real Name
Ken
In last nights episode God/Goth Guy is looking through a book of Rennaisance art and fingers a picture of Satan as he speaks about someone losing their light and completely turning into a Monster. Which I believe is his way of expressing that upon death they will go to Hell.
I doubt that was a picture of Satan. It looked a little lower on the totem pole, like an imp or incubus, or the artist's rendering of a lost soul, the subject of the book.

He also did not say "Monster" with a capital M -- maybe you are projecting :)

While the writers are wisely trying to walk the line, God is trying to relate to Joan, Joan is trying to relate to God, the writers are trying to relate to their American audience, and the audience relates to show, so they all are more likely to lean Christian before Jewish or Muslim.

Although the ending of the last episode with the sounds of gunshots was a bit over the top, it worked for me, and I got misty. Another little thing I liked: how much Joan was genuinely excited by the chemistry experiment.

//Ken
 

MattBu

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
186
Although the ending of the last episode with the sounds of gunshots was a bit over the top, it worked for me, and I got misty. Another little thing I liked: how much Joan was genuinely excited by the chemistry experiment.
It was preachy times ten, I didn't find it THAT cheesy though, I mean my skin didn't crawl it was just chintzy I thought, it reeked of after school special with the frozen frame and $4 Gunshot sound effect. I thought it smacked a little bit of "Ripped from the headlines" though. Maybe living in Colorado I am a bit more jaded when it comes to Columbine messages though.

I personally think it would be VERY interesting to see a future episode where someone takes advantage of Joans susceptibiliy to suggestion or perhaps even have Satan contact her. Perhaps in the season cliffhanger. I don't want them to blow their load too soon as this is one of my favorite shows ever, Im just a sucker for teen drama though. I STILL Miss Freaks and Geeks and this show is VERY close to that in my eyes (Minus the nostalgia of course).
 

Ken Chan

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 11, 1999
Messages
3,302
Real Name
Ken
The sound of the gunshot was a simple and unambiguous way of indicating what would have happened had Joan not stepped in. But since more than one person was shot, they had to repeat the effect, and it got progressively cheesier.

I've said earlier in this thread that I hope they never try to introduce Satan as an actual character, because it ruins the non-denominational aspect of the show -- which is what I thought you liked. And if you think they're having trouble avoiding answering questions about God now, if you add Satan the whole thing will collapse. I'm not sure this show can last five or seven seasons; I would rather they quit while they're ahead. And they'll all be long out of high school by then.

//Ken
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,712
Messages
5,121,145
Members
144,147
Latest member
cennetkaralowa
Recent bookmarks
0
Top