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JFK - The Movie (1 Viewer)

Anthony Thorne

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 10, 2000
Messages
529
I love the film, and the presentation on the new DVD is fantastic. There are sequences in the movie that, to my mind, simply could not be any better. One of my personal favourite sequences is the ballistics test from the window of the depository, where Costner and his assistant discuss the pros and cons of trying to shoot a moving car from that location. The way the sequence segues into that montage of imagery (ending with Jackie O's scream) is astounding.
I'm very impressed with the commentary on the disc, too. Stone is very open and articulate in his discussion. I'm comfortable with the idea that some others might disagree with his conclusions, but I feel that his argument is pretty solid and the movie itself is spellbinding. The latter fact is what I value most about JFK - The Movie.
Nice to see that this thread has remained pretty tolerant of opposing points of view, too. I've seen threads on other sites that quickly degenerated into fairly personal attacks on both Stone and fans of the movie. Here at HTF we get interesting discussion and a lot of enthusiastic comments about the qualities of a great movie. :)
EMPIRE Magazine in the UK listed JFK as being one of the 10 best films of the 90's. With the caveat that they restricted their list to English-language (and predominantly American) films only, I'd imagine that they're not too far off the mark.
 

Jack Briggs

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 3, 1999
Messages
16,805
"It was clearly the work of a group of crazed homosexuals and cross-dressers backed by J. Edgar Hoover, Castro, the Mafia, and the men's room attendant at the Pentagon. And Earl Warren. And don't forget Lyndon Johnson. And possibly a radical wing of the Boy Scouts."
Al, don't forget the UFO angle. It's almost certain that JFK was going to reveal the truth about the crashed flying saucer in New Mexico. It seems so obvious. That's why he was assassinated by the approximately 300-400 gunmen located strategically throughout Dealy Plaza. The Illuminati may have been involved, too.
Ahh, but at least the transfer on the new disc is quite good. The film? Not a favorite, but I'm trying to be tolerant about it.
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Bruce Hedtke

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 11, 1999
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2,249
I thought it was the lady in the bright red raincoat who gunned him down???
Guys, as Al said, the homosexual underpinnings were a minor and quite irrevelant point and you really don't need to keep that debate alive. There was homosexual activity but I don't recall any instance where Stone pointed specifically towards that fact having anything to do with the factions that conspired in the assassination.
As for the film, it was one I was obsessed with when it first came out. I was young, ignorant and pretty much bought into that whatever Stone put on the screen was undeniable truth. Reading and learning my history has helped me distinguish what was fact-based and what was creatively enhanced by Stone to seem more plausible. His film, as well as the argument today, still hinges on the "Magic Bullet Theory" and whether it is credible. You can take away alot of evidence and boil down Stones JFK to its premise and that was to prove a conspiracy and pressure Congress to reveal the files they have sealed. "He seeks the truth. So do we." There have been so many dissenting opinions that it is hard to take up one side or the other. It is a polluted arena and one that has alot of evidence for each camp to cling to. That is why what Stone did was perfect. He made a film that captured that dissension and created awareness. And, it is a great cinematographic treat.
I for one, just cannot buy into the Magic Bullet Theory and therefore have to side with the conspiracy camp.
Bruce
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TheoGB

Screenwriter
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
1,744
I studied physics at university and would say that the magic bullet theory is so unlikely that it must be accepted as untrue. Add to that the impossibility of LHO using that rifle to fire that quickly and accurately.
Therefore the Warren Commission must have also seen how totally impossible it was and the ballistics experts also. That said you can see that only the government could have engineered the cover up as they would have nothing to gain otherwise.
Okay, I might have been wrong going with right-wing extremists so we'll just say extremists, but that sounds like enough evidence for it to be fact to me.
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Mitty

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 13, 1999
Messages
886
Al, I think the depiction of gays may be perfectly in line with what Ebert is getting at in his review; it depicts the feeling in America at the time, with unease, paranoia, and "restless dissatisfaction." Could it be that Stone painted the homosexual characters with such a brush so that we could feel the same ways about the characters that most Americans would have felt about them at the time; that they are evil and morally reprehensible? Let's face it, the 60s would have felt like a tough and confusing time for a lot of older and more conservative Americans. How do you recreate that feeling for a 90s audience who, for the most part, won't buy that someone is morally bankrupt simply because they are gay? I don't think he's beyond making an audience feel that the film itself is homophobic if it gets his point across. Stone has always been sort of fearless that way; he'll happily take it all of the criticisms on the chin for his art. I'm not trying to cannonize the man, but I have to grant him that; he doesn't allow the knee-jerk press to dictate what he says with his films.
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Brad_W

Screenwriter
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
1,358
I just watched the movie again only this time with Stone's commentary track. The whole depiction of gays in his film is based on fact. Stone sat down personally with the person that Kevin Bacon portrays and said this: that he is a tough and honest man whom openly expressed his homosexuality and his involvement with the characters portrayed in the movie/real events. He says time and again that the homosexuality displayed in the movie meant nothing other than in New Orleans there was/is an underground scene which these men were apart of.
Well, I pretty much went against what I stated earlier as to debating the homosexual tones of the movie in this thread, but I thought it was interesting with the debate going on here because in actuality Stone makes marked statements about it and his reasoning behind it in his commentary.
:)
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Gregory Pauswinski

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 2, 1998
Messages
570
I am a big fan of Oliver Stone and I think JFK is one of his best movies. If anyone is interested in learning more about Oliver Stone or the Kennedy Assasination, check out these resources:
Books:
Oliver Stone's USA - A series of essays in which historians critisize his films and then Stone has an opportunity to respond.
On The Trail of the Assasins by Jim Garrison. The book that JFK was based upon. There's a lot more information about what happened to Garrison after the Clay Shaw trial and more detail on the investigation.
Case Closed by Gerald Posner. This is the most frequently referenced book on Lee Harvy Oswald acting alone.
Web Sites:
www.prouty.org - Fletcher Prouty was portrayed as Mr. X in JFK. He was a Colonel in the Air Force and in 1955 served in the Pentagon as the liason between the CIA and Air Force for Clandestine Operations.
[Edited last by Gregory Pauswinski on October 15, 2001 at 06:42 PM]
 

Tyler Gagnon

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
71
What ever happened to "Innocent until proven Guilty in a court of law" Oswald was never brought to trial (for Obvious reasons) Yet i was tought in school that oswald was the killer of the President. It's amazing how much people will believe what the goverment tells them, But politicians never lie. "The bigger the lie the more people will believe it"
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,665
Oswald was never brought to trial (for Obvious reasons) Yet i was tought in school that oswald was the killer of the President.
Just because Oswald was never brought to trial doesn't mean that people (including people who aren't simply government stooges, as you imply) have been incapable of looking at the evidence. The overwhelming evidence is that Oswald killed Kennedy, and it's irrelevant that that evidence hasn't been presented in a formal trial.
 

Tyler Gagnon

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
71
I am sure if Oswald was brought to trial, There would be plenty of reasonable doubt, I had reasonable doubt long before i ever saw the JFK movie, There is just to many things about Kennedy's death that make me believe other wise. I don't know how many times i have said to people O.J. killed his wife, And as quick as i said it the first thing i was told was "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" Beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,665
I am sure if Oswald was brought to trial, There would be plenty of reasonable doubt
And I am just as sure that had Oswald been brought to trial in 1964 or 1965, he would have been convicted.

It's apparent to me that you're projecting your personal doubts accumulated over the years onto what people would have done back then, and I don't think it's valid to do so.
 

Tyler Gagnon

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
71
I am just saying that i do not think Oswald killed kennedy,That is my personal opinion. There i s not a single shred of evidence to make me believe otherwise.
 

Tyler Gagnon

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
71
I did not say everyone must share my opinion, I just said there are a lot of people who do, And i believe i am in good company.
 

Tyler Gagnon

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
71
Yes. and there are a lot of people who believe that the war in Iraq was not over oil, But guess who's in control of selling that resource as of today.

O.K. i am going to sop here before this gets out of control, I don't want to get the boot ya know.
 

Jack Briggs

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 3, 1999
Messages
16,805
We had an earlier thread about Oliver Stone's JFK which morphed into a discussion of the assassination itself and the usual lone-gunman versus conspiracy-of-millions back-and-forth posting. The thread was retitled and moved to After Hours. I believe it was closed eventually because of flaring tempers.

As a film, Stone's opus has some merits. As history, it was very correctly excoriated by historians, journalists, and broadcast commentators.

I would suggest reading about the Kennedy Administration itself (Richard Reeve's scholarly and quite-lengthy President Kennedy is an excellent source), as well as established historical texts regarding the Administration's tragic end. Those many, many paperbacks positing all manner of wild speculations and scenarios tend to buckle, credibility-wise, under scrutiny (I admit to having read a few of them).

As for this thread: Whaddya guys want? If we're ready to talk about the assassination itself, somebody can start a new thread and post it in After Hours (with the usual proviso regarding no personal politics and so on).
 

Jim DiJoseph

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 13, 1999
Messages
271
"...before it gets out of control..." ???
This thread must have intrinsic magical properties to still be open. What happened to talking about the movie?
I must agree that JFK must be viewed as a drama and little else. Ebert's perspective is the right one, IMHO. Facts aside, Stone really entertains his viewers by evoking emotion and thought on many levels.
 

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