JBL System comments so far.. (1 Viewer)

[Richard_s]

Many here have helped me put together my system. My original goal was $1000. The key to me was ending up with asystem that had a TRUE sound, decent Base and DD5.1 and DPL II.
First the speakers: I got the N26 for mains and the N-center. I had issues with sibilance and that sibilance seemed more pronounced with the n-center. Well that problem was definitely the sources TV and CD no question. I also wanted to pass on a responce I got from my e-mail to JBL (took about 10 days) which shows me they are a good company to deal with:
Hi Richard,
The sensitivity of the N-Center is 2dB greater than the N26,
but I don't see if that would have any effect on the condition you're
experiencing. If you question the performance of your sepaker, I would
suggest letting a JBL service center check out your speaker.
Please call 1-800-336-4JBL and then follow the prompts for SERVICE CENTERS.
They will be able to refer you to the people in your area that will be able
to service your speaker for you.
You can also find a service center on our website, www.jbl.com under
"Product Support". It will give you service centers closest to your zip
code.
I just got a Yamaha HTR-5550 to pair up with the JBL's based on many helpful posts and recommendations. It came down to the Denon 1802 and the HTR-5550. base on the features (One being the component video switch) the HTR-5550 was a better value for me. Just got yesterday but I can tell you that the Music I played was crisp and clear and if anything the sibilance of my "poor" sources was reduces at the same time , maybe the speakers or my ears have broken in, but definitely sounds great. Don't have my Subwoofer until tomorrow so that will hopefully round out one great $1000 Music/HT systems for me. The reason I do not have a Subwoofer is that I decided to return the Sony SA-wm40 and just go for the JBL PB12 just felt the Sony just was not powerful enough.
This is my system and what I paid if you are interested.
N26 + N-center $249 delivered www.jandr.com
Receiver HTR-5550 Yamaha Best Buy $399 (maybe will go on sale )
Subwoofer JBL PB12 $299 delivered www.jandr.com
Rears Bose model 100's FREE (Yes next purchase N24's $99)
Stands for the N26's TEC-PS31 $48.89 delivered Link Removed Had to modify top by putting on a 10"x9" top screwed to the 5"x5" wood top supplied (worked great looks very nice) will need spikes on carpet to keep stable.
OK so its $1095 when I replace my rears but the extra $95 went to getting the PB12 ( I think worth it anyway a budget is just a guide 10% over not bad). When I get the subwoofer I will post my subjective review. I have some DVD music and the phantom Menace to give me a chance to see just how this system performs.

 

[Michael Yung]

Looks like a nice system for your budget, Richard. This hobby can get very expensive very quickly. So it is nice to see that you can put together a nice system with relatively little money. I am certain that your system would blow the doors off of any HTiB setup and brings you many hours of enjoyment. Take care.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

REF Calibrate everything after you get your sub, your Yamaha will have 3 Sub/LFE controls (SWFR for Dolby ProLogic [which is 10 dB lower than DD/DTS LFE], DD-LFE and DTS LFE) - read my Yamaha process at the end of my SVS thread.
Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:
I read the post but am confused. It may be that the HTR-5550 Yamaha has a limitation here (does not have 3 SUB/LFE settings that I can find). I only have one adjustment I can find for the sub and it is called "LFE Level SP/HP" (Speaker/Headphones). This is adjustable from -20db to 0db. The subwoofer can only be set as SWFR/MAIN/BOTH.
From Your post:
**Equipment final settings:
o Yamaha RX-V995
· SWFT = -12 (range: 0 to -20)
· DD LFE = -5 (range: 0 to -10)
· DTS LFE = +5 (range: -10 to +10)
o SVS 25-31PCi
· Level: ½ power (12 o’clock position)
· Crossover = Disabled
I may not understand what you did but does this get me there it looks like I have to do things manually when I switch modes with the HTR-5550.
I am using AVIA if that makes a difference:
Balance the subwoofer level to the mains with the volume on the subwoofer set to 1/2 using the subwoofer setting on the Yamaha.
After the above is done then find the place on the subwoofer volume control where I get the proper db for DD LFE and DTS LFE I just cant figure out how to set this properly. What I would have to do then when I listen is manually move the subwoofer volume to match the mode. Do I just not understand, is there a compromise setting or is this a severe limitation of the 5550 yamaha?
Sorry now I think I am more confused than before or possibly the Yamaha 5550 can not be set properly. At least I can still return it. Is it possible that somehow the Yamaha has the "differences" in DB for DD LFE and DTS LFE settings built in somehow or is this not likely

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Richard, not being familiar with your new HTR-5550, all I can do is describe how I Calibrated my sub, using the previous Mail-order model R-V905 Dolby Digital Only (authorized mailorder version and identical to the RX-V595).
Both my Yamaha's on the front panel have two buttons, but will concentrate on the R-V905 options:
1) TIME / LEVEL
2) SET MENU
Pressing #1, five options will scroll by
- DELAY
- CENTER (Control range (dB) MIN, –20 to +10)
- R SUR (Control range (dB) MIN, –20 to +10)
- L SUR (Control range (dB) MIN, –20 to +10)
- SWFR (Control range (dB) MIN, –20 to 0)
====
If I press #2, I have 10 options (listing the R-V905 only, the RX-V995 has a few more)
- CNTR (CENTER SPEAKER) Choices: LARGE/SMALL/NONE
- REAR (REAR SPEAKER) Choices: LARGE/SMALL/NONE
- MAIN (MAIN SPEAKER) Choices: LARGE/SMALL/NONE
- BASS (LFE/BASS OUT) Choices: SW/MAIN/BOTH
- M.LVL
- LFE (LFE LEVEL) Control range: –20 dB to 0 dB (in 1 dB step)
- D.RNG
- C.DELAY
- GUARD
- INPUT
I use SWFR to calibrate the sub using CD Music by ear - once it's balance, not bloated or boomy, I'm done and never touch that control again.
Next, I run my Video Essentials LFE Test Signal and adjust my DD LFE Level. This does not change my above CD Music Bass SWFR level, it only calibrates the LFE DVD output.
Since your HTR-5550 has DTS also (like my RX-V995), whatever that REF Calibrated number is for your DD LFE Level, just add 10 to that number. In my RX-V995 case, my number was -5, adding 10 = +5 for my DTS LFE setting. It's easily verified by playing your DTS DVDs - which I did and it sounds glorious!
Look over your Yamaha Manual and see if they duplicated the controls I described above.
Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:

I realy appreciate all your input.

Looks like I have everything for " press#2" including the LFE level set.

For "Press#1" I do not have:

DELAY ( I can only set a delay on the center channel)

SWFR (Control range (dB) MIN, –20 to 0)

What would you recommend even if it is "get a different unit". The Denon 1602 is the same price anything else is $100+ more (with DPL II, I could give up the component vidio switch If I had to).

Other things this unit does not have (may not be important I just don't know):

No way to set a delay for the surrounds

No way to set a room size

Thanks

Richard

 

[Phil Iturralde]

OK - Yamaha changed your optional controls.

Before thinking about another unit, . . . it could be built in!?! REF Calibrate your DD LFE (and just add 10 to your DTS LFE afterwards).

Exit your DVD mode ...

... Enter CD mode play one and see if the bass level is too bloated.

If not, ... maybe there is an internal circuit that cuts your DD LFE REF Level by 10 dB??

No way to set a delay for the surrounds

No way to set a room size

I don't use these options - it for those that like to tinker and mess up everything! Fortunately, you could always go back to their default settings.

Interesting,...

Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:

I will try tomorrow when my subwoofer arrives. I guess it is possible that they built in a -10db when using a non digital source. Maybe they also adjust for the diffferences in DD LFE and DTS LFE automatically (this unit is for a novice like me afterall). That way once a user balances for DD LFE with AVIA or VE the system takes care of the rest. Wishfull thinking but possible I guess.

I only have one setting for LFE so I am not sure what you mean by:

REF Calibrate your DD LFE (and just add 10 to your DTS LFE after

How would I add 10db to my DTS afterwards?

Really appreciate your help!!

Richard

 

[Phil Iturralde]

How would I add 10db to my DTS afterwards?

Yamaha didn't link a PDF Owner's manual for your unit yet, so I looked @ the HTR-5450 manual. Go to your Index, and look in the SET MENU section, you should have 9 Items under SET MENU (per HTR-5450). Look @

#5: DOLBY D. SET (Dolby DIgital set)

#6: DTS SET (DTS LFE Level)

The DTS range should be like mine = -10 to +10, set your range here.

Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:



This is the link to the manual. For some reason I can't open it without error I must not have some feature it is looking for maybe it will open for you. I just typed in my menu but when I tried to post I got an error. I will try again separately so I can get this posted.





http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/m...HTR-5550_e.pdf



Edit



Menu:

1) Speaker set

A Center

B main

C Rear LR

D Bass (SWFR/MAIN/BOTH)

E Main Lv (-10db if mains are too efficient to balance system)



2) LFE Level SP/HP (Speakers/Headphones)



3) SP Delay Time (only for center channel)



4) D. Range SP/HP



5) L/R Balance



6) HP Tone Control



7) I/O Assign - allows for mapping these inputs to different devices

A (component video input [A]DVD D-TV/CBL

B (optical Input)

C (optical input)

D (coaxial input) used this to change this from CD to my DVD player (now DVD on remote goes to the digital input)



8) Input Mode (default is auto)



9) Display dimmer



10) Mem Guard



Why would they take out such an important feature?

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Richard - play with the

2) LFE Level SP/HP (Speakers/Headphones)

option and see if the sub menus give you DD & DTS levels.

Also check out

D Bass (SWFR/MAIN/BOTH)

... choose SWFR

Why would they take out such an important feature?

Hard to tell, though it might be imbedded in the Menus, I hope their not creating a menu structure like PRO-E (UNIX Mechanical-CAD)!?! It can go 15 options deep! (alright, ... maybe not 15 levels deep, but it seems like it!)

Phil

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

Nice system Richard, great bang per buck. I hope the PB-12 fits your needs, remember room placement, and possibly putting some polyfill in it.

Phil, I acknowledge you for helping him get everything together. Reminded me of how helpful this forum is.

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:

Nothing else available for LFE SP/HP with any setting SWFR/MAIN/BOTH.

Like I said I don't have the subwoofer yet but I played the DVD Paul Simon "you're the one" in paris. This has DD5.1 and DTS 5.1. I also have the Bass set for MAIN so the LFE is directed to the L&R speakers.

I measured (roughly) the SPL for both DD5.1 and DTS5.1 and the DTS was a higher db level for sure possibly 10db. There was definiely a stronger base from the N26's than when using the DD5.1 Does this help understand anything?

 

[AlbertH]

i think if you want to set delays you need to put your receiver in "enhanced mode" my yahama 5280 needs to be in enhanced mode to change the speaker delays. (i.e. enhanced 6.1 instead of 6.1

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Chris - thanks for your comments!

... DD5.1 and DTS5.1 and the DTS was a higher db level for sure possibly 10db.

Want the good news or bad?
Let me give you the good news first, you might still have some adjustments when you change your HT Speaker settings to Small after you add your new Sub.
Now the bad news, in reality, the LFE levels between the DD-5.1 & DTS-5.1 should not be different, both formats should provide balance bass support without sounding bloated or boomy. Now, the overall DTS SPL (entire) level can be higher by 4 dB on some DVDs. Twister is one where they are identical and easy to switch between the two formats for comparison.
Meanwhile, adjust the LFE (Sub) until it sounds right for now, enjoy the evening, ... then let all this fun start once again after you install your new JBL Sub!
Phil

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:
Tried a few more things.
If I set the Mains to small there is still no other LFE menu items.
I re-ran the DVD test DD5.1 vs DTS5.1 but I ran both with the LFE set to 0 then set it to -20 while watching/listening. No change that I could hear in either mode. I guess LFE is mostly below the N26 capability or there was no LFE in the song track.
The diference I heard was only the volume difference and is in the 3-4 db range with the DTS being louder.
Like you said I think I will enjoy the Bruins playoff game tonight and see what happens when I hook up the SUB.
What would I look for with the subwoofer connected to see if the Yamaha has built in the level adjustment when changing modes?
Should the DD5.1 and DTS5.1 sound equaly balanced if the LFE is in fact being adjusted by the Yamaha and if not the DTS5.1 will sound "bloated/Boomy"? May have to get a DVD that definitely has LFE for this test any recommendations on a DVD that I can rent?
Thanks again
Chris:
First time I have heard of the polyfill with the PB12 but will keep that in mind if I feel I need to tighten up the bass thanks for the input.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Should the DD5.1 and DTS5.1 sound equaly balanced if the LFE is in fact being adjusted by the Yamaha and if not the DTS5.1 will sound "bloated/Boomy"?

You got it! My Yamaha AR Receiver line required a +10 addition (above the DD LFE level) in the DTS LFE level to correctly play back DTS DVDs, which is why I have two LFE trim levels - emailed to me from DTS by the way.

So, if I left DD LFE @ 0, DTS LFE was +10.

Once you setup everything tomorrow, REF Calibrate your DD LFE using AVIA (the other DVD which I strictly use is Video Essentials which I've heard can be rented).

Play a super Blockbuster DD-5.1 DVD, feel the bass, hear the bass and its balance. Lower the volume and take that DD-5.1 DVD out and put in a Blockbuster DTS-5.1 DVD, then raise the volume to about the same SPL, ... feel the bass, hear the bass and hopefully its balance.

Have a great night,

Phil

 

[Richard_s]

OK off the topic a little

I hope their not creating a menu structure like PRO-E (UNIX Mechanical-CAD)!?! It can go 15 options deep! (alright, ... maybe not 15 levels deep, but it seems like it!)

That is why we switched to Solidworks we dumped Pro-E about two years ago. I will take less menu anytime if the system will do what you want.
Will post tomorrow on how I made out.

 

[Richard_s]

Phil:
I set up the PB12 very nice subwoofer I am sure more Bass and power than I need seems very tight. After all was adjusted using AVIA the volume control on the PB12 is at about 1/3. It also seems that the Yamaha 5550 sets the crossover for the subwoofer based on the "warble" test in AVIA (once I put the crossover dial beyond a certain point approx 1/2 maybe near 90Hz it does not matter if I increase it so I just left it set all the way up for now). When I do a sweep of all channels including the LFE sweep all 6 channels are within 2db of each other so I guess that is good enough for a first pass (the LFE was set to 0db).
Now I listened to my Paul Simon DVD and it seemed to have too much Bass for my liking so I "ear" tuned the volume then rechecked the balance of the woofer and the Mains with AVIA. I found that I reduced the Bass by about 4db (this seems consistent with the characteristics of the Radio Shack SPL meter I think).
I tested the LFE adjustment in AVIA while running the LFE sweep test so this does affect the LFE properly and in DD which is what AVIA is running in. The adjustment followed the SPL meter.
I tried the Paul Simon DVD again now in DD5.1 and DTS. If I set the amplifier 4db less for DTS the DD5.1 and the DTS sound identical. I then set the LFE to -20 on both DD5.1 and DTS and this had no effect. Even though the "picture" on the receiver displays the LFE and all 5 channels I guess this does not mean that the DVD is actually using the LFE track (I know LFE attenuation works I tested it in AVIA).
I don't have much in the way of movies mostly DVD music. I will have to get myself some movie that has a killer LFE track and then I will be able to see if the LFE is balanced in DD5.1 and DTS. DD5.1 and DPL II as well as all DSP modes seem to sound quite good.
What do you think so far good bad indifferent? Anything else I should try or is the LFE test with a killer movie going to be the determining factor.Any DVD movies that have killer DD5.1 and DTS LFE track. I was thinking of possibly the "Phantom Menace" and/or "Men in Black"
Other notes about the PB12. In the AVIA sweep test I can hear down to 28Hz and the SPL meter seems to show sound (-3db) at about 25. The sweep and warble tests appear about the same for all channels with peaks and valleys at about the same points but the peaks and valleys are very narrow. I did not play with placement I just plunked it down 8 inches from each wall in the corner (put a piece of wood under it to kepp it off the carpet). Probably room for improvement I am sure. Also have some items that are resonating (mostly light fixtures so I will have to deal with that somehow).

 

[Phil Iturralde]

In the AVIA sweep test I can hear down to 28Hz and the SPL meter seems to show sound (-3db) at about 25.

You're going to feel the LFE w/the above listed DVD's! -yeah!
As your speakers break-in, recheck the REF Calibration - write down everything tonight, and compare notes as the months go on! Have fun!
Phil