JBL s26 vs axiom m22's...which one? (1 Viewer)

[TommyL]

Hi all...There is so much talk about the JBL and axiom lines...which one would be the overall best...not money wise, but performance wise...would the money difference be worth it to goto the axioms, or would you put the money you save into a better receiver? Axioms with vp150 center, 4- m22's and 4 stands will run 1200 bucks US...4- JBL s26's, and JBL s-center 500 bucks + stands...Leaving me with 700 for a new receiver(I use a 5240 yammy)...thinking about a marantz 6200....which would you bite on? any thoughts would be great! My room is 12x14x7' ...about 5-6 feet from the fronts...I use it mainly for movies and xbox thanks much! TL

 

[TommyL]

And now I am reading about a 3rd speaker contender...the level 3 htd speakers...any thoughts yet? It sure would be nice to grab a 7200 or maybe even a 8200 marantz from ac4l.com if I did go with jbl or htd....one more stick in the spokes

 

[Eric_Singer]

It sounds like you need to decide exactly what your budget is and what you want to buy with it. The Axioms and JBL's are in completely different classes in terms of both price and performance. I've heard both speakers, and there is just no comparison - and considering that the Axioms are over twice as much, there shouldn't be. Personally, I'd get the Axioms, keep your Yamaha, and then replace it later. Of course, this is a total of nearly $2000 instead of $1200 or so, so you really do need to decide on what your budget is. Both speakers sound great for what they cost in my opinion, but the Axioms cost more and sound better. I haven't heard the HTD III's, but based on reviews, they are probably in between the two. Another to consider is the Axiom M3 for $250 (pair) factory outlet +90 for the stands.

Good luck,

Eric

 

[Dustin B]

I'd have to disaggree with Eric here, they are not in completely different classes (the Axioms may sound some what better, but not different classes). I directly compared the JBL Studio series to the PSB Image series (which others would directly compare to the Axioms). I choose the S38 over the 2B and 4T. I haven't heard the Axiom. I do know the JBL Studio Series are made from 3/4" MDF while the Axioms are 1/2" MDF. I also know that from a design stand point I'd take the 3way S-Center over any of the Axiom horizontal MTM 2way centers any day. And the VP150's driver layout just doesn't make any sense to me, it has to worsen the lobing problem the VP100/50/0 will have. And don't get me started on their subs. But from a design stand point, besides the 1/2" MDF nothing bad to say about the bookshelves or towers.

Remember that the Series I JBL are the ones that are so cheap. Before the Series II came out (which is essentially still identical to the Series I, you can mix and match the series with no timbre problems) they sold for a chunk more than they are currently selling for as places clear out the old stock.

The cheapest online places will sell you Seires II S-Center, S38 and S26 for $720. At a retail store that would be $900-$1000.

You can't find the Series I Center anymore. So if you got Series I S38 and S26, then a Series II S-Center it would be $620. Would be another $40-$60 less if you could still find the Series I S-Center.

 

[peter a]

dustin-
i was considering the vp150 to match a possible all out axiom set up (minus the svs sub)- would you go against this and go with a different center? i'm sold on the rest of the speakers... but, the center still pops up as a great debate topic. is it true that their center is about as unworthy as their sub? let me know- thanks.
p

 

[Dustin B]

I won't go as far as saying that. But I would definately stick a single M3ti or M22ti (big plus of Axiom is they sell individual speakers which allows doing this) as the center rather than use any of their designated centers. Problem with this is most people wouldn't be able to get past the asthetics of a bookshelf speaker in its' vertical orientation on top of or below their TV.

The VP100 will be no worse than the plethora of other centers out there that use the same design. But I still can't get my head around the advantage of sticking two tweeters over a foot apart in a horizontal plain. Would cause major off axis comb filtering from my understanding.

 

[peter a]

dustin-
this puzzles me... i see your point though. having the woofers that spaced out could cause some odd sound patterns- but, what comes out of the woofers... do they have discrete sounds, or is the same info sent to each one? i guess i just answered this by asking it... my guess is that it has the same info per woofer... so, you'd recommend one of their surrounds as opposed to the center speaker to be used as the center speaker? interesting... do you know of anyone that does this?
thanks-
p

 

[Eric_Singer]

Peter,

I'd take a look at the axiom forums - a LOT has been written on this topic. The designer recently wrote a post on the VP150's layout, and it should answer some of your questions. There are also a number of people who have used M3's as centers w/o complaints. I'm still deciding on this myself, and was previously dead set against the VP150 - after reading what the designer said and listening to owners' comments, I'm now leaning towards it. While I've read complaints of the VP100, I've never really come across a complaint of the VP150 - owners really seem to praise it. Either way, check out the Axiom forums - it should really clear things up a bit.

Best,
Eric

 

[peter a]

eric-
i'd read the axiom forums... but, basically anyone who has purchased the VP150 on the axiom site isn't going to go on there after dishing out X amount of money and say, "this speaker sucks." i'd expect to see that here more than there... but, i'd be somewhat hesitant to go on to the AXIOM site and look for complaints. its not that i don't trust what they filter... but, its possible that people on there are just too hyper happy about their purchases. this forum is a little more honest (it seems).
p

 

[Dustin B]

Peter, same info to both. Problem it causes is off axis lobing.
Also remember this is more of an off axis problem. If you are the only one listening and are straight infront of the speaker the problm is none existent. But the further off axis you go the worse the problem will get.
Although some complain that the point of a MTM (vertical) is to limit vertical dispersion (to keep roof and floor reflections to a minium) while keeping horizontal dispersion good (for imageing and soundstage). Flip an MTM on it's side and you reverse this.
The VP150 is not an MTM though. It's the only TMMMT I've ever seen. This post is interesting:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...870#post736870
But if the multicell concept of lobing had benefit for that period of time in theaters, you'd think more companies would still be using it. Mind you a theater and a hometheater room are two very different environments.

 

[Dustin B]

Eric, can you point me to this thread that answers the questions about the VP150 layout. Only one I could find is this one:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/sho...b=5&o=0&fpart=
and his response was far from satisfactory to me.
But I will say that chessero guy really gave me a laugh. Can't identify tongue in cheek bad grammar done on purpose. Can't read a post carefully enough to identify what Brian was actually talking about. Calls us kids, I was the closest to a kid in there at 24. And finally this is by far my favorite.

I REALLY hate uninformed, illogical, unexperienced opinions. SHOW ME THE PROOF!

Oh, and I also agree with Peter. Manufacturer forums are not a good place to get objective info and opinions on their products.

 

[Eric_Singer]

Hmmm... There is a post older than the one you link to there, but I wasn't able to find it with the search function on their boards...perhaps the search only goes back so far. The one you found there doesn't go into much detail, unfortunately. If you're interested, you should probably go ahead and email Axiom; I'm sure they'd be able to elaborate further. What I'd really like to see is an off-axis response graph, though. All I can or will attempt to vouch for are the M22's, which are quite impressive indeed. I do, however, remain a bit skeptical myself on the off-axis performance of the VP150.

Best,

Eric

 

[Dustin B]

There is a drop down box for how far you can go back. How long ago was it and do you remember any words or phrases that would be some what unique to that post. Do remember what section of the board it was in.

The only thing I got out of Ian's posts in the thread I linked to. Was ya, we know it causes off axis problems. They measured really bad, but we could only sort of hear them when we went off axis in listening tests.

The MTMTM design they switched from would have been even worse.

 

[peter a]

dustin-
some advice if you could on the center channel. let me tell you what i was looking at again. maybe that will help.

axiom m80s
SVS 20-39pci
not sure on which axioms for surrounds
totally unsure on the center now.

p

 

[Eric_Singer]

Thanks for pointing out that drop-down box. I think I read was the article in March, but I don't know if it was a new March article or just an old article that I happened to be reading in March...my memory isn't that clear that far back, unfortunately. I'm going to email Axiom and ask about off-axis response graphs. I'll let you know if I discover anything useful.

Eric

 

[Jason Wilcox]

hey dustin...so the axioms are 1/2"mdf...big deal....isn't the JBL s-center plastic?

 

[Dustin B]

Yes the JBL S-Center is made out of plactic or composite of some sort. It isn't thin cheap plastic anyways. The Northridge plastic stuff feels cheap, pick up a S-Center and tell me it feels cheap. It weighs 15lbs and is very solid (VP150 is 17lbs and VP100 is 11lbs; the Northridge Center made of plastic weighs in at 10lbs). It doesn't matter what it is made out of as long as it is solid and doesn't flex. Wilson Audio certainly doesn't use MDF in their enclosures.

Wilson Audio cabinets are constructed from three different high-density materials. Two of these materials are phenolic resin based composites, and the third is a methacrylate polymer.

This isn't to say JBL does the same (I do somewhat wish the S-Center had the same quality MDF cabinet the S26 and S38 have, but I'll live with the current enclosure so I can have a better driver layout at this price point), just that there are other appropriate materials besides wood for speaker enclosures. Although, value/performance wise, it's still tough to beat properly braced 3/4" MDF.

Plus it uses a proper 3way design and layout that won't suffer from the off axis problems of horizontal MTM or TMMMT centers. This isn't to say the JBL center is by far better. Just at the price point it is hard to beat. I fully intend to replace all my JBL Studio stuff with speakers I build myself (from kits or published designs) as soon as possible (gonna be longer than I would like though). And when I do, all 6 resulting speakers will be identical.

As a side note, Boston Acoustics has a 3way center. The Diva and Rocket centers are 3way. B&W either uses a 2way that isn't an MTM, a 2.5way that is an MTM (this also solves the problem) or a 3way. Joe D'Appolito's Audax hometheater speaker kit has MTM mains but the center is a 3way design.

 

[TommyL]

OK Dustin...so which would you pick? The jbl's and a 700-900 dollar receiver, or the axioms, and stick with the 5240 yammy? I want it to sound good, but not hearing the axioms has me a bit on the "wait" side...granted, this won't be the end of my upgrades, but right now I use the HTIB yammy speakers it came with fyi thanks much..tom

 

[Jason Wilcox]

i agree with dustin that you should just buy another one of your mains to use as a center.....that's what I plan to do

 

[Dustin B]

What do you have for a sub? Is there still budget left for one?

You should go give the JBL's a listen on the receiver you intend to get. If you like what you hear go for it. If not you could give the Axioms a try (but be prepared to eat the shipping if you end up preferring the JBL's with the newer receiver).

What about keeping the Yamaha, getting the JBL's, and then getting either an SVS 20-39PCi or an Adire Dharman? Then upgrade the receiver later.