james cameron -king of the world (1 Viewer)

[MikeRS]

Contrary to popular opinion, I believe the final battle in Ryan to be the greater achievement. It's just astounding in it's superhumanly exact choreography of anticipation and attack, detonation and movement, emotion and pathos. I get shivers just thinking about it.

I love Cameron, but I don't think he's ever put something together on that level. Methinks he would agree with that assessment.

But his career ain't over yet.

 

[Holadem]

Agreed .

--
H

 

[Grant H]

Well, the Geonosis battle was pretty much (if not completely) entirely done by the FX boys. Would have been neat to see what Lucas would have done had he actually directed it (or directed it moreso.)

Though I wished long ago for Cameron to direct the PT, or at least Episode III. Him or David Lynch for Episode III. But, yeah, from an action perspective, Cameron would have kicked ass in the PT.

Can't do any comparisons with Spielberg and SPR since I've never seen it, nor many other heavy Spielberg films. Just don't care too. The work on the Jones films is great overall. Didn't care for JP.

Have to say I'm a bigger Cameron fan, mostly because I like his type of films better overall.

Sure wish he'd make some more movies. T2 (which I never cared for as much as the original) looks like the ultimate classic compared to the barely popcorn-worthy flicks of today.

And you have to give the man credit for his portrayal of women. He really helped bring about the kick-ass women taken for granted on the big and small screen today. Wrote a term paper about his works for my Gender and the Mass Media class in college, mostly because I knew the films so well it cut down greatly on research. Got an "A".

Man, now I can't remember what I wrote for "Philosophy of Feminism". Whatever it was was so late it wouldn't have been worth any points but kept me from getting an incomplete. Actually, I think the above paper WAS for feminism and I focused strictly on Titanic for my journalism class. So that's the one that got an A. It was on the portrayal of gender and class in Titanic.

Now I don't get graded on anything because I write essays on the Home Theater Forum. :frowning:

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Chris Winters wrote (post #1):




Did I miss it? Are there specific rumors or hard news as to what Cameron's next project is to be?

 

[Ernest Rister]

He's shooting a film about a journey to Mars, its simply taking him a while to build the Lunar space station on the Moon. Additionally, the long-range spacecraft needed for the film won't be ready until 2018 or so. Cameron is a stickler for shooting on real locations.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I believe his oft-rumored project might be an adaptation of a manga titled Battle Angel Alita. I honestly could care less about the content. I just want to see the man direct another film. I'll be there opening showing, because Cameron is my favorite director Like Grant, I prefer Cameron myself, but I recognize he has limitations that Spielberg does not. Action is not one of them.

As for SPR, I feel that BHD is it's equal in battlefield filmmaking. But only just.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Grant H]

Oh, come on!! His brother works faster than that!

 

[MikeRS]

I disagree.

Although I believe Scott's technique is impeccable, it's not even close in my book.

Somehow Spielberg made War feel like a living breathing beast. It was a 'character' as much as the unseen shark in Jaws. In Saving Private Ryan, war is like a virulent organism, a hydra that lies dormant just long enough to fool you. It FELT like a living breathing player in that piece.

I found BHD a much colder exercise---emotionally and kinetically.

But different strokes....

 

[Pete-D]

I'm reading Cameron's treatment of Avatar -- this would make a great movie. I hope he brings it up again.

 

[Kevin Grey]

While I love the directing in BHD it seems so obviously inspired by Spielberg's work on SPR that there's no way I can equate the two. Love or hate the rest of the movie but Saving Private Ryan has had a pretty major impact on how battle scenes have been filmed since.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

And the style in SPR is DIRECTLY traceable to Braveheart Spielberg himself said so, I believe.

I found BHD successfully stripped of all artifice...lean, honest, and uncompromising. Even the silly asides were true, because battle and war are many things.

Where is the Avatar script?

Take care,
Chuck

 

[MikeRS]

You've never read it, Chuck?

As one Cameron fan to another, you MUST.

So ambitious.

 

[Julian Lalor]

I have to strongly disagree here. The script of Titanic is risible (it's painfully bad), and it remains the one and only thing that prevents the film from being a truly great cinematic experience. It is also the one major shortcoming of Cameron as a great film maker. In short: he can't write dialogue for shit.

Of its record equalling 14 Oscar nominations, the scripting nomination was the glaring omission, and for good reason. Cameron's ego is what prevents him from true greatness. It's a shame, because if he left the script to a real writer, Titanic, and a fair few of his other films, would be truly outstanding.

 

[MikeRS]

Dialogue is only one part of the screenwriting equation. Great structure is actually very pivotal to a film's impact on many dramatic levels, and Big Jim is definitely a master at that.

Just ask Oscar winning screenwriter William Goldman.

(He praised Cameron's screenplay for Titanic due to it's "brilliant structure")

 

[MikeRS]

And dialogue can be functional and work fine in a script with brilliant structure. Not all scripts require the snappy patter rhythms of a Coen bros, Mamet or Tarantino, to be successful.

There WAS some emotionally true dialogue in Titanic. That's what counts when you direct your actors correctly, and have great scene structure.

 

[Ernest Rister]

Spielberg's use of hand-held cameras and cinema verite' predate Braveheart (I'm at a loss to see how Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan are at all similar) -- Spielberg experimented with the technique in Schindler's List in 1993, SPR is an elaboration on those ideas.

In any case, Spielberg's source of inspiration were old battleground photos taken during the Normandy landing. He wanted to capture the panicked look of photos taken by people caught up in the madness.

As for this:

"The beach landing is nice, but remember almost the whole of SPR is shot in a faux documentary style which is meant to heighten the confusion and disorientation of battle, so I probably wouldn't include it in a discussion of pure action scenes (especially scenes that excel at NOT disorienting the viewer, whether on purpose or not!)."

The shots in the sequence were as meticulously planned as anything in James Cameron's body of work. The camera work serves the action and the story incident, and frequently orients the viewer by placing him in the same predicament as the soldiers -- you have water to your back, and the only way to survive is to run forward towards the entrenched positions. The hand-held camera is used very shrewdly, and at no time does it lurch about in a way that would completely disorient you. There is a forward momentum to the action and a clear goal that is in sight, and Spielberg is careful *not* to completely disorient you or helpessly confuse you.

The tension of the sequence is almost unbearable on first viewing as your internal "fight or flight" syndrome kicks in. This is what makes the sequence hypnotic -- like the shark in Jaws, you understand and respond to the action on a primal, instinctual level. The only thing in Cameron's body of work that can compare is Aliens, the concluding hive sequence in particular.

The other thing I admire about the sequence that isn't normally commented on is how Spielberg introduces us to all of his primary characters throughout the opening action. We meet everybody important to the story and we see what their skills are (and we're even taken into Miller's inner world for a brief second when he is stunned by an explosion). It is a masterful piece of exposition as well as a marvel of action direction.

The beach landing is "nice"? The only thing ill I can think to say of it is that the final battle of the film is even more amazing.

James Cameron's films with extended action sequences:
Pirahna 2
Terminator
Aliens
The Abyss
Terminator 2
True Lies
Titanic

Steven Spielberg's films with extended action sequences:
Duel
Sugarland Express
Jaws
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Raiders of the Lost Ark
E.T. the Extra Terrestrial
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Empire of the Sun
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Hook
Jurassic Park
The Lost World
Saving Private Ryan
Minority Report

 

[Sean Moon]

See, even though Cameron's dialogue can be cliche and cheesy, especially in Titanic, his early stuff, especially Aliens, had great dialogue in my book. It was direct and to the point. He also has a knack for writing some of the most memorable scenes from action films and memorable lines:
"Game over man! Game over!"
"Get away from her you bitch!"
"I'll be back"
"Hasta la Vista Baby"(although, I dont really like that one)

Those are some of the most recognized lines from any action film. Probably the only other one to give those a run for their money would be from Sudden Impact "Go ahead, make my day" and the infamous "Do you feel lucky punk?" from the original Dirty Harry.

And about Cameron's next project, whenever it may be, now that he has become worldwide famous/reviled his next pic will be under SO much scrutiny it wont be funny. I see it being under the kind of pressure Episode One was under before release. But I am sure Cameron will deliver.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Mike, thanks. As stated, there is much more to a script than simply the dialogue. Yes, the dialogue in Titanic can be wince inducing. And yet the storytelling is so clean and effective. Dialogue is not structure or story. He is excellent at a type of dialogue...just not used in Titanic.

Ernest, that's a great list. Again, I'd put Aliens above everything else listed for both directors.

As of Braveheart, the comparison is placing the audience IN the battle vs. watching the battle - not in the films, but the technique of filming the battle sequences. Spielberg HAS cited Braveheart as a touchstone for SPR. I'll see if I can find the quote tomorrow.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[MikeRS]

Don't forget "The Abyss".

Some nailbiting stuff.

 

[Ernest Rister]

This is the only linkage between Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan that I could find:

"An invasion calls for a sizable number of armed forces, and when you need armed forces, the best place to turn is the military. The Irish army provided 750 extras for the D-Day scene, many of whom were movie veterans, having worked on Mel Gibson's "Braveheart."

Feeding and costuming so many extras might have been a logistical nightmare were it not for a system dubbed "the sausage machine," originally perfected by associate producer Kevin De La Noy when he also worked on "Braveheart." The extras were broken down into 15 groups of 50, which were fed, clothed and made up in varying order. At the end of the day, each group went back through the system in reverse. It worked like a proverbial well-oiled machine."

Onto this:

"As of Braveheart, the comparison is placing the audience IN the battle vs. watching the battle - not in the films, but the technique of filming the battle sequences."

I just can't see how a director as knowledgable and schooled as Spielberg could have thought or said such a thing. Am I supposed to believe that Spielberg has never seen Platoon, The Alamo, Paths of Glory, Zulu Dawn, or any number of films with battles shot from a soldier's perspective? There's nothing particularly innovative about the battle footage in Braveheart, except for the digital armies and the amount of blood on screen. If memory serves, it was the gore of the battle scenes that received the most attention, not any "you are there" technique.