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JACK AND THE BEANSTALK - 70th Anniversary Restoration! (1 Viewer)

Bob Furmanek

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It’s worth noting, this is the first SuperCinecolor show that had to be preserved and restored from 35mm release prints. That is because all of the master 35mm elements - Eastman 5247 camera negative and red, blue, yellow separation masters - went missing in 1959 when the worldwide rights were sold by Lou Costello to Sterling Television in New York.

When rights were transferred to RKO in 1960, they received a dupe black-and-white negative only. They received no color elements whatsoever. (I know this for a fact because I went through all of the RKO files on this film in the mid 1980s.) That’s why all of the 16mm TV prints from 1962 through the late 1970s were very grainy black and white. Here’s an example of the quality.

Beanstalk RKO 16mm

When I was Archivist for the Abbott and Costello Estates, I went through mounds of vintage paperwork. I discovered a cryptic lead on where the color 35mm elements may have gone but my efforts to track them down led to a brick wall. They have not surfaced in six decades and tragically, they appear to be gone.

The one VERY brief piece of 35mm camera negative that I did find in 1980 was in a stock footage library in New York. It was being used as fill leader.

Other preserved three-color Cinecolor shows have been fortunate in being sourced from a master element. They include;

Abbott and Costello Meet Captain Kidd - red, blue, yellow separation masters. I found these precious elements in England and arranged for them to go to the UCLA Archive.

Invaders from Mars - mostly Eastman camera negative.

Sound Off, Hurricane Island, When the Redskins Rode, Barefoot Mailman, The Texas Rangers, Magic Carpet, Sunny Side of the Street - Eastman camera negative.

So keep in mind, this Blu-ray release is the first time you’re seeing a restored three color Cinecolor film that HAD to be sourced from release prints. Tragically, that’s all that survives in 35mm.

As all of the reviewers of the new ClassicFlix release have noted, the difference in quality between our new restoration and previous versions is substantial.

In conclusion. Yes, there is grain for all the reasons mentioned in my earlier post.
 
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[email protected]

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It is interesting that websites and YouTube channels who deal primarily in reviewing Blu-ray titles, including this particular film, have given nothing but raved reviews and no mention of any problems with images.
 

Robert Harris

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The first generation 5247 Eastman color negative stock was quite grainy in 1951 when the film was photographed.

The original 35mm camera negative for this film does not survive and went missing in 1959. You can see the only surviving example of the camera negative in Cutting Down the Beanstalk, one of the bonus featurettes on this ClassicFlix release.

35mm SuperCinecolor release prints are three generations removed from that grainy camera negative. Each layer of optical work in 1952 in order to create those 35mm prints added additional layers of grain to the image, plus a great deal of baked-in dirt and damage.

You can learn more about the complex three-color printing process in Jack Theakston’s featurette, Imperfect Spectrum.

The image posted earlier of Lou Costello (taken with a cell phone off the screen) does not represent the image quality on the restored master.
Just a couple of thoughts regarding elements.

Eastman 5247 was only used for about 18 months, before 5248 arrived in early 1952, solving many of the earlier film's problems.

Using 5247 as the basis of SCC created even more problems, as dupes grew one upon the next. It is what it is.

But on to something more pleasant. After viewing this, I’m seeing a certain resemblance between Mr. Costello and James Gondolfini.

I had also been unaware of Mr. Costello’s philanthropic endeavors.



It is interesting that websites and YouTube channels who deal primarily in reviewing Blu-ray titles, including this particular film, have given nothing but raved reviews and no mention of any problems with images.
I believe that when reviewing something of this nature, ie problematic print derived, with no better known elements, you grade on a curve.

I’ve not seen this release, but have no doubt that it’s far more than acceptable, which on the fan curve should provide a wonderfully entertaining viewing experience.

I’m perceiving no downside.
 

Bob Furmanek

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Capt D McMars

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Am I the only person that finds this Blu-ray completely unwatchable? What am I missing? I'm definitely sending it back and demanding my money back. Easily the worst-looking disc I've ever seen. View attachment 146790
What The Fuck Wtf GIF
 

jayembee

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Am I the only person that finds this Blu-ray completely unwatchable? What am I missing? I'm definitely sending it back and demanding my money back. Easily the worst-looking disc I've ever seen. View attachment 146790

John, have you tried playing it again? The reason I ask is that I had just put on the new Criterion UHD of Double Indemnity that I got from the B&N sale. The image was way too dark, and hyper-grainy, like the image you posted for Beanstalk. Oddly enough, though, there was no problem with the Criterion or Universal cards that play before the film. I chapter-skipped through it, and it was problematic throughout the film. When I got back to the menu, I hit play again, just to see what would happen, and this time, it was perfect. No problems whatsoever.

I don't know what caused the problem, whether it's the disc, the player, or the TV, or a combination of factors. I have seen this before, though, with other discs on occasion.
 

Danoldrati

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John, have you tried playing it again? The reason I ask is that I had just put on the new Criterion UHD of Double Indemnity that I got from the B&N sale. The image was way too dark, and hyper-grainy, like the image you posted for Beanstalk. Oddly enough, though, there was no problem with the Criterion or Universal cards that play before the film. I chapter-skipped through it, and it was problematic throughout the film. When I got back to the menu, I hit play again, just to see what would happen, and this time, it was perfect. No problems whatsoever.

I don't know what caused the problem, whether it's the disc, the player, or the TV, or a combination of factors. I have seen this before, though, with other discs on occasion.
Hi
No, your not the only person that thinks there is a lot of grain. When I first played the disc I was checking out to see how it looked. I was too close to the TV and the color section looked horrible. That night I thought I would check it out again. I was standing about 8 Ft or more from the screen and it solved most of the grain problem. Also the room was dark and that helped. So I won't complain but it is very grain when your watching it, too close to the TV.
Good Luck
Dan
 

Vern Dias

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There was no cropping. 1.37.1. Perhaps it looks that way because I didn't include the sides of the monitor?
You clearly have some sort of excessive chroma sharpening going on somewhere in your video chain. Could you please describe your full video chain and setup?

I viewed this yesterday on a 54" x 74" screen from 96" using a JVC RS3100 from an HTPC with MadVR upscaling to 4K and while the color sequences were grainier than most blu rays, that was to be expected as it was sourced from a release print rather than a negative or other pre-print elements.
 

Paul Penna

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Hi
No, your not the only person that thinks there is a lot of grain. When I first played the disc I was checking out to see how it looked. I was too close to the TV and the color section looked horrible. That night I thought I would check it out again. I was standing about 8 Ft or more from the screen and it solved most of the grain problem. Also the room was dark and that helped. So I won't complain but it is very grain when your watching it, too close to the TV.
Good Luck
Dan
I viewed it projected 8.5 feet wide, sitting 16 feet back, and grain, while not invisible, seldom if ever called attention to itself or took me out of the film. In that sense, it wasn't an issue at all.
 

jayembee

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[...] and while the color sequences were grainier than most blu rays, that was to be expected as it was sourced from a release print rather than a negative or other pre-print elements.

Exactly. Now that I'm done with Double Indemnity, I took a look at Jack and the Beanstalk. And yes, there is more grain than one might be used to, but I certainly don't think it's excessive enough to negate the amazing overall quality of the release, especially given that it was made from a release print.
 

Kent K H

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John, have you tried playing it again? The reason I ask is that I had just put on the new Criterion UHD of Double Indemnity that I got from the B&N sale. The image was way too dark, and hyper-grainy, like the image you posted for Beanstalk. Oddly enough, though, there was no problem with the Criterion or Universal cards that play before the film. I chapter-skipped through it, and it was problematic throughout the film. When I got back to the menu, I hit play again, just to see what would happen, and this time, it was perfect. No problems whatsoever.

I don't know what caused the problem, whether it's the disc, the player, or the TV, or a combination of factors. I have seen this before, though, with other discs on occasion.
I actually had this happen to me with one of my Star Trek original series blu rays with my Sony 4K player. I nearly panicked that it was broken, but ejecting the disc and reloading it seemed to clear up the issue.
 

Capt D McMars

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Jusy got the BD yesterday and loved the title and the bonus material. A wonderful job to Bob and crew!! That said, I was a little bit disapointed that the lobby card and booklet was not in my edition!!
Earlier in this tread were photos from happy customers, showing thier copies....showing the added swag. So, opening mine....expecting that version, since I did Pre-Order from Classic Flix, and waiting for months...Sad, but it lessens my happy, LOL!!!
 

ClassicFlix

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Jusy got the BD yesterday and loved the title and the bonus material. A wonderful job to Bob and crew!! That said, I was a little bit disapointed that the lobby card and booklet was not in my edition!!
Earlier in this tread were photos from happy customers, showing thier copies....showing the added swag. So, opening mine....expecting that version, since I did Pre-Order from Classic Flix, and waiting for months...Sad, but it lessens my happy, LOL!!!
Thanks for supporting our label and glad you loved the release.

To clarify, there was no booklet or lobby card as part of the release. Any thing posted to that effect must be a personalized one made by the poster themselves.

- David
ClassicFlix Founder, Producer
 

RobertMG

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It’s worth noting, this is the first SuperCinecolor show that had to be preserved and restored from 35mm release prints. That is because all of the master 35mm elements - Eastman 5247 camera negative and red, blue, yellow separation masters - went missing in 1959 when the worldwide rights were sold by Lou Costello to Sterling Television in New York.

When rights were transferred to RKO in 1960, they received a dupe black-and-white negative only. They received no color elements whatsoever. (I know this for a fact because I went through all of the RKO files on this film in the mid 1980s.) That’s why all of the 16mm TV prints from 1962 through the late 1970s were very grainy black and white. Here’s an example of the quality.

Beanstalk RKO 16mm

When I was Archivist for the Abbott and Costello Estates, I went through mounds of vintage paperwork. I discovered a cryptic lead on where the color 35mm elements may have gone but my efforts to track them down led to a brick wall. They have not surfaced in six decades and tragically, they appear to be gone.

The one VERY brief piece of 35mm camera negative that I did find in 1980 was in a stock footage library in New York. It was being used as fill leader.

Other preserved three-color Cinecolor shows have been fortunate in being sourced from a master element. They include;

Abbott and Costello Meet Captain Kidd - red, blue, yellow separation masters. I found these precious elements in England and arranged for them to go to the UCLA Archive.

Invaders from Mars - mostly Eastman camera negative.

Sound Off, Hurricane Island, When the Redskins Rode, Barefoot Mailman, The Texas Rangers, Magic Carpet, Sunny Side of the Street - Eastman camera negative.

So keep in mind, this Blu-ray release is the first time you’re seeing a restored three color Cinecolor film that HAD to be sourced from release prints. Tragically, that’s all that survives in 35mm.

As all of the reviewers of the new ClassicFlix release have noted, the difference in quality between our new restoration and previous versions is substantial.

In conclusion. Yes, there is grain for all the reasons mentioned in my earlier post.
Bob you should reach out to Mr F at WAC maybe they would let your do A and C meet Captain Kidd
 

Malcolm R

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Jusy got the BD yesterday and loved the title and the bonus material. A wonderful job to Bob and crew!! That said, I was a little bit disapointed that the lobby card and booklet was not in my edition!!
Earlier in this tread were photos from happy customers, showing thier copies....showing the added swag. So, opening mine....expecting that version, since I did Pre-Order from Classic Flix, and waiting for months...Sad, but it lessens my happy, LOL!!!
I'm not 100% sure, but I think there were several exclusive extras for Kickstarter backers. I think those are shipped separately to those people and are not part of the general release as ordered from retailers.

I believe one of the extras on the regular disc is a photo gallery that may include photos of those items.
 
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ClassicFlix

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I'm not 100% sure, but I think there were several exclusive extras for Kickstarter backers. I think those are shipped separately to those people and are not part of the general release as ordered from retailers.

I believe one of the extras on the regular disc is a photo gallery that may include photos of those items.
Bob can speak better to this if there's something that was given away that I'm not aware of. The only extra that I know of that was offered to backers of the campaign was a lenticular cover--but that was only for those that paid extra as it wasn't included in the standard backing amount.

- David
ClassicFlix Founder, Producer
 

John Sparks

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We’re still waiting for if he tried the disc again or checked his settings…here today, gone tomorrow.

I’ll say it again, when you see what is out there and then compare it with ClassicFlx has offered to us…you’ll be happy that we finally have a beautiful copy of the movie for all of us to own and cherish!

I’m one damn happy camper!
 
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ClassicFlix

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A Washington Times review of Jack and the Beanstalk (70th Anniversary Limited Edition).

- "The nearly immaculate restoration takes full advantage of a 4K scan of the 35mm SuperCinecolor original source elements."

- Regarding the loads of bonus features, the reviewer sums them up with "Dang, that’s a ton of extras, folks, and a great collection of background for film history connoisseurs."


- David
ClassicFlix Founder, Producer
 
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