I've just about had it with HT!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by EarleD, Oct 4, 2001.

  1. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have been using a pair SVS 20-39's for about a year now. I have been trying to find the best place for them in my HT. I have found what I think is the best place for movies, but for music it is only OK. I currently have them in the left rear corner of the HT. This spot is near the prime seating and sounds good for most DVDs being watched.
    The problem i have is certain scenes (ie. the helcopter crash in The Matrix, the helicopter scene in Apoclypse Now) dont sound like I think they should, they are describes as scenes with thunderous bass. Dont get me wrong many movies sound unbelievable and I can shake the foundation of my home. There are times I just think the hell with it sell the subs and go back to just plain old 5.0.
    I think some of the problem is the room I have to use as the HT. It is a finished basement, app 21X14. 3/4 of the left side is open to another room with the stairs being the divider.
    I have my fronts about 8' apart and pulled out from the wall about 2ft. The center is exactly between the fronts on the TV stand. The tweeters of all 3 front speakers are at the same height. The biggest problem I am having up front is the right main (which is near a corner ) is noticeably fuller sounding then the left main which just has a wall behind it. Any thoughts on this and how to fix this other than building a false corner?
    Now for the most annoying problem, listening to music, I have tried the subs up front behind the mains and the subs seem to blend much better with the mains, but with the subs up front the the movie performance is somewhat lacking. An thoughts
    Thanks for letting me rant and any ideas would be greatly apprecated.
    Earle
    [Edited last by EarleD on October 04, 2001 at 06:09 PM]
     
  2. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just noticed that my profile is not working so here is a equipment list:
    Denon AVR 3200
    Klipsch KG 4.2
    Klipsch KG 2.2v
    Klipsch KSB 3.1
    Pair of SVS 20-39's
    B&K 4420 amp (mains)
    Fidek 600watt amp(subs)
    All speakers set to small
    All channels balanced to 75db except subs which are set to 78db using VE
    thanks
    ------------------
    Reciever: Denon AVR3200
    Speakers: Klipsch KG4.2's/KG2.2v/KSB 3.1's/SVS 20-39's
    Amps: B&K Ref 4022(mains)/Fidek 600 watt(subs)
    DVD: Toshiba 3109
    Laser Disc: Pioneer CLD-1090
    TV: Sony 32" monitor
    2 pair of Aura Bass Shakers
     
  3. LawrenceK

    LawrenceK Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't get THAT much bass from the helicopter crash in The Matrix, or the helicopter attack in Apocalypse Now, certainly not what I would call thunderous...so I think you are ok.
     
  4. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Messages:
    2,276
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    EarleD,
    I get a good amount of bass from the helicopter scene (especially when it hits the building), but there are many DVDs that have way more bass. Try the opening sequence of Toy Story 2 or the depth charge scene of U-571. If you don't hear THUNDEROUS, BOWEL-SHAKING bass, then there's a problem!
    Ron
     
  5. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You want bowel shaking bass to test those subs with...aside from the wonderful sound of U-571
    Haunting DTS, the ultimate sub killer!!!
    And the plane crash in FIGHT CLUB. When Jack is woken up on the plane from it landing, there is a really good bass effect there, but the crash sequence is full blown demo material.
    But to really test the sub, the two best are U-571 and the Haunting in DTS. The two best chapters in Haunting are the creaking pipes chapter, and the one where the room lily taylor is in comes alive. There are TONS of parts in this movie when my sub bottoms out, the only film to do that!
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Gary Kellerman

    Gary Kellerman Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 1999
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is a long shot suggestion. I placed two raw l0 inch subwoofers in two Marantz Imperial 6-g speaker cabinets. On the pre-amp sub output of the Sherwood 6095R I ran one interconnect to a Y-Split which was connected into the power amplifier inputs of a Nad 3240PE int. amp. From a lot of various experiments one thing did stand out. The interconnect wire sounded better when I reversed its connection. I tried some other interconnects and they all acted the same way. It appears that their is some kind of electrical flow that involves the phasing of the bass response of the subs between the the receivers sub-out and the power amplfiers input. I would try this simple test if this is possible on your system.
     
  7. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the suggestions.
    I have U-571 and the depth charges sound great. Another movie that sounds scary is Titan AE, the ice field scene starts to make me wonder if my house's structural integrity is safe. I cant decode DTS as my reeiver is only DD, I hope to change this soon.
    Gary,
    I will try your suggestion tonight, I have a Monster sub cable which has a specified direction in which it is to be used, but hey you never know.
    Now that I have had some time to relax I know that I could never leave this exciting and fun hobby. Watching a movie with no subs is not happening in my home anytime soon.
    Now on ot the music front.
    I have been thinking of running the mains as large and getting another sub for music only. i could then just turn off the SVS's when listening to music. Its not that the SVS arent musical, its just I prefer them in the front of the room when listening to music. The Boston PV-600 comes to mind, I could high pass the mains at about 50hz and have the sub fill in the rest.
    Any thoughts?
    ------------------
    Reciever: Denon AVR3200
    Speakers: Klipsch KG4.2's/KG2.2v/KSB 3.1's/SVS 20-39's
    Amps: B&K Ref 4022(mains)/Fidek 600 watt(subs)
    DVD: Toshiba 3109
    Laser Disc: Pioneer CLD-1090
    TV: Sony 32" monitor
    2 pair of Aura Bass Shakers
     
  8. James Edward

    James Edward Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2000
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The problem is the room. My den, like your basement, is on a concrete slab. Concrete just does not seem to transfer bass to the listening position like a suspended wood floor. I have had an HSU VTF-2, and now an SVS 20-39PC, and yet I can't get the room to rumble as well as a friend that has a far larger room, and a lesser woofer(Velo CT 100). His room opens to a kitchen, has a 19 ft. ceiling, but still the vibrating floor does the trick. My bass is lower, cleaner, and louder than his, but boy, do I miss the floor shaking that he has.
    I'm sure that the woofer is probably turned up relative to the other speakers to compensate, and that throws off the music balance as well. You probably like it for HT toward the back so that it also does double duty as a sort of 'bass shaker' for the couch.
    I feel your pain.
     
  9. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2000
    Messages:
    8,967
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am trying to rearrange my room, and my sub will most likely be on my right, instead of ahead of me. Am I to understand that this set up is not good for music? Crossover is 80Hz.
    --
    Holadem
     
  10. Jason Merrick

    Jason Merrick Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2000
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Simi Valley, CA (Los Angeles)
    Real Name:
    Jason Merrick
    Earle,
    Have you contacted the guys at SVS with your dilemna? They generally read all SVS posts here but since your subject doesn't mention SVS they may have missed this thread. I am sure they will have input, if not a solution, for you.
    P.S. If you haven't heard it from someone else already, HTF discourages equipment lists in signatures, it throws off the search function for anyone who is looking for info on a particular piece of equipment.
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lee Bailey

    Lee Bailey Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Central California
    Real Name:
    Lee Bailey
    Earle, have you tried adjusting the phase on the SVS subs? Since you are running the front speakers as large, you may be cancelling some stuff out. Trying the front speakers as small may help also. You may even want to try the old setup trick of putting the subs where you sit in the room, play some bassy stuff, walk around the room and see where it sounds the best. Put your subs there in that spot if possible.
    ------------------
    The Bailey's Web Page and Home Theatre
    The Bailey's DVD Collection
    [Edited last by Lee Bailey on October 05, 2001 at 08:48 PM]
     
  12. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the suggestions guys
    Lee,
    The subs are of CS line and have no phase adjustment other than changing the speaker wire leads. I have the speakers wired out of phase with the main speakers. This was done with a RS SPL meter and running a tone at the Xover freq and trying both in phase and out of phase. I chose the phase that had the higher output at the XO freq(80hz). Both subs are in phase with each other
    I have another question for you guys:
    If I decide to go with another sub for music only would I be better off just going out of the sub out and keep the speakers set to small? Of course I would also turn of the SVS in the rear of the room. Or should I set the speakers to large and use the subs HP XO to remove the deep bass from the mains. If I keep the speakers set to small I can just shut off or turn down the sub not being used for each application. (ie. SVS for music and new sub for HT.)
    This would be the easiest way to do this, but I also want the best results possible.
    Thanks
    Earle
    [Edited last by EarleD on October 07, 2001 at 01:51 PM]
     
  13. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    gary
    i tried switch the direction of the cable and it sounds and same and tested (with a RS SPL meter) the same. Thanks for the suggestion
    Earle
     
  14. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
  15. Selden Ball

    Selden Ball Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Selden
    Earle,
    I know you've used your RS meter, but have you actually gone around the room listening for the best position for your subs? The easy way to do this is to put a sub in your normal listening position and put your ears where the sub might go.
    Running multiple subs in a room can be tricky since low frequencies have wavelengths comparable to room dimensions and can cause standing waves and interference patterns. I'm sure you're aware of this, since you mention putting them in the same place. Stacking them is supposed to be the best way to avoid the interference problem.
    My understanding is that using the LFE output and setting all speakers to small usually produces the best result.
    (and with the sub's crossover disabled, since you're using the one in the processor) [not to mention being a *lot* easier than trying to use an external crossover to blend the sub(s) with the mains]
    Subwoofers have much better bass extension than any bookshelf or tower speakers, and multiple sources of low frequencies cause problems (as mentioned above). One discussion I read commented that if this doesn't produce high quality sound, then you need to buy a better sub: one with less distortion and wider frequency response. I.e. avoid those that need a high power amp because they use an equalizer to increase the SPL at low frequencies.
     

Share This Page