It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only (1 Viewer)

[PeterTHX]

Sorry, Ron I have to disagree.

Sony and the Blu-ray team did everything they could without significantly downgrading their product. It's the HD-DVD group that are in the wrong.

I'm all for boycotting HD-DVD product.
Do NOT boycott Blu-ray. If Blu-ray products are outselling HD-DVDs 10-1 you think the studios won't notice? That's our best chance at unifying the formats: KILL HD-DVD. Even Sony went VHS...

 

[Sean Laughter]

Let's all boycott computers since Dell, Compaq, HP, and the other x86 hardware providers refused to compromise with Apple and make a unified computing format!!!! Aaaaaarrrrrr!!!!!


Or we'll be banned? I refuse to support a boycott of an entire new kind of product market simply because ONE of the competitors in said market is making an inferior product.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

Lost in the noise here is that DVD is really the "extra" format -- just as NHK intended High Definition to replace NTSC, LaserDisc was to be supplanted by a High Definition format, originally MUSE LD, which actually went into production in 1992 and did support component inputs. It lasted until about 1998, dying out mostly because the studios were not interested in releasing anything to the format and the hardware and software were just too expensive, even for the Japanese. It was, of course, only available in Japan, the only country where there was any kind of HD penetration at that time. Meanwhile the studios and manufacturers got caught up in replacing VHS with a [initially read-only] medium with all the copy protection and content management that LD never permitted, and which had convenience for its major selling point.
There may be a lesson or two in this for the current situation.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

I support blu-ray. They created a good format for HD content. Great. There's a competing format. I don't fault them for that. They tried to unify with HD-DVD, and were shot down because they refused to lower the quality of their format. I don't fault them for that. Every decision and comment made by the HD-DVD camp seems to spur from greed, from the technical specifications to the lies they spread about their support. Blu-ray have made a good product, they've been honest about it, and have done so to deliver quality to the consumer. Yes, they wan't to make money, thats the point. They deserve to make money, they deserve the royalties that come with ownership of the format. It isn't fair to punish them for the format war. If HD-DVD won't give into a unified format, then thats their fault. I'll support Blu- ray, and I know many others here will too, even some who claim to boycott. Any power we may have should be used to decide who wins the war, not to obliterate both camps. They both know people will buy what they're selling. We would be far more effective as consumers if we would just make a damn choice in the matter. A unified campaign for one of the two formats would be an amazing achievement. Consumers always complain about Sellers never learning. Well we don't learn either apparently. We owe them as much as they owe us.

 

[george kaplan]

Ron,

I have a suggestion. Most people in this thread seem to be in support of a boycott, and a few are very strongly opposing it. I suspect that overall the HTF would overwhelmingly support it, but why not find out? Set up a poll, and let people vote whether they're going to boycott HDMI only HD, or not.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

Im confused as to whether this is still just about HDMI (i'm sorry, but thats silly) or about all the problems that come with a format war. I think something like this should have its own thread, that make the boycott intentions clear.

 

[PeterTHX]

What Dustin wrote.

Nobody seems to realize that Blu-ray has had working equipment for awhile on the Japanese market. HD-DVD is strictly prototype, even now noone has demoed working hardware.

 

[ZackR]

Just a question...

Did the first post not refer only to HD-DVD? Will blue-ray offer HN over only HDMI as well? If Blue-Ray will support HD over something other than HDMI, then why not boycott HD-DVD and support Blue-Ray? Blue-Ray clearly seems to be the better technology anyway. I may be missing something here though...but to me, Blue-Ray looks like a great format and I would LOVE it if it were the one that was universally adopted. If it supports other output for HD, it would make sense (to me) to boycott HD-DVD and support Blue-Ray. Why not choose a side? We certainly did in the DVD/DiVX "war."

 

[ChrisMatson]

Would participating in the proposed boycott preclude one from buying the Sony Playstation 3?

If so, count me out. I plan on buying one on release day.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Ditto to what Dustin wrote.
I have never considered component cables to be HD. I replaced my last 40WS (component)) with a 65WS set that has a DVI-D input - which is 1080i.

I cannot imagine a 1080i signal being downconverted to component. That is why the other side of the disk with be SD. We (everyone) can use the SD now, and later buy new HD TV's and players and flip it over.

My worst fear is that Blu-Ray will come out in the same format - SD on one side and Blu-ray on the other. If that happens, we must be prepared to stop buying anything, and everything, that comes out.

I swore I wouldn't buy anything until there was only one new format out, but I never intended to stop buying anything.

This does go back to what I said months ago. The new players won't be $1000. They will be more like $150. That way, hardly anyone would hesitate to get one, or both formats. Stores won't have any trouble putting both players on their shelves, because all of the current SD models will just get sold and never be replaced.

Ron, I am all for this boycott, but I want to make sure of the ground rules before I jump in.

Glenn

 

[Jose Martinez]

Considering that the X-Box 2 will use HD-DVD, try convincing the thousands (if not millions) of gamers out there to ban it! I myself will pass on it and wait for the PS3 which uses Blu-Ray.

 

[Sean Laughter]

Off topic here, but the Xbox2 is not using HD-DVD, at least not upon its initial release, they begin mass production of retail units next month.

 

[Jose Martinez]

Oh, you're right. The PS3 will definitely be on my to buy list

 

[CraigF]

I don't think so, so we'll have to (friendly-like) disagree on that. There is little media crossover in the gamer world, a different market, and the manufacturers are VERY happy to keep it that way.

The $$ is in the software. My DVD S/W cost at least 50 times my hardware cost, maybe even 100 times, so I couldn't care less about the hardware as far as cost goes.

In case you got the wrong idea, I actually do think Blu-ray is the superior technology. I don't see how anyone can argue it isn't. It isn't at all like DVD-A vs SACD, to use another recent abortion as an example.

I just want to see ONE format. If the people putting the $$$ on the line can't agree, I don't see how we can when it's just words. They're playing with us, but we as the customers must win, we must make them give us what we want, not what they want. Or at least a compromise that's beneficial to us. So a boycott. Anyway, boycotts tend to happen all by themselves in a confused marketplace: the average consumer does nothing when they don't know what to do.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

^There is a bit of a difference here. When PS2 was released, DVD players were already reasonably affordable. IF HD-DVD players and Blu-Ray players are initially priced at the $1000 mark, and then the PS3 is released this coming March-May, at a likely price of $300 dollars, that would definitely cause a crossover.

As for Blu-ray supporting HDMI only, while its not official yet, they have mentioned it just as frequently as HD-DVD has. It's very likely.

 

[Paul.S]

I'm not familiar with Alan Jay/Digital Spy. Is he/the site reputable/trustworthy? I note in another area of the site they are regurgitating the rumor about Justin Timberlake playing Two Face in the Batman Begins sequel.

I sure hope so, Glenn. What makes you say this though?

-p

 

[CraigF]

A good point! If it happens. But can you play a hi-res movie disc beneficially for a HT system (what we care about in this forum) in a PS3? I doubt it, not at $300, not that early in the Blu-ray life-cycle (they'll cripple it for *us* somehow, either the sound or the video). That is not at all Sony's way, they've never done that, first gen of a new technology always costs a pile compared to a mature player of existing tech. They may have to this time though!...but I wouldn't bet a nickel on it, they are desperate it seems. Also a lousy release time for a "toy", before Christmas is obviously best here.

And I wonder what percentage of early adopters, the type of people who are likely to frequent these forums, can immediately benefit from video via HDMI/DVI. Probably not that large...I just don't see us jumping on anything when our real long-term enjoyment investment is in software. Previous early-adopters are older now, and see how things go, and are past the point of "needing" to have everything new before it's proved itself, they don't need to be cool and have learned how not to be impulsive. And have learned to read the market. Like I said previously, all you have to do is walk into Wal-Mart (not necessarily buy there!) to know what's a winner and what isn't. WM doesn't give a sq. in. to a loser, least not for long. So if PS3 comes out next spring, a bit more than a year from now you can go to WM and know how it's going to turn out...man, they have market savvy, I read their consumer databases are totally incredible. Let's see those Blu-ray movie discs on the shelf, and hopefully not like that boring old-fart crap like they did with SACD, gotta sell to the "kids" to make it work.

[^ Just a bunch of disjointed thoughts. I really am tired of reading about this in the tech journals. EVERYBODY says they want to agree on a compromise, but nobody knows how to do it, or is willing to sacrifice anything...at this point. Historically, you should know it was Sony/Philips who compromised/gave in on the current DVD format, it's not what they wanted.]

 

[Paul.S]

P.S. - Interesting that Alan Jay mentions 89 titles for HD DVD launch. That's the exact number that were announced at CES in January by Warner, Par and U. In recent months, I have been thinking that not all of these titles would street at the same time, but Jay seems to intimate that they indeed will.

-p

 

[SteveCallas]

I won't be buying either player for at least a couple years after they are out just to get a good feel for the landscape. Even then, I definitely will NOT be replacing my entire dvd catalog with HD transfers. The added resolution will be nice I'm sure, but unless they come up with some spectacular new surround sound format, I will only be buying HD transfers for new movies during that time.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

The specifications of the PS3 are actually quite impressive, and Sony has the hardware in there for the games, not just a dvd drive like they threw in as a selling point on the PS2. Its High def compatibility comes from its High Def games. And the blu-ray technology was developed along side the PS3, as blu-ray will be the only format that games are placed on (unlike ps2). I would never use a PS2 or Xbox to watch DVD's on, the loss in quality is noticeable--not terrible, but noticeable. I think any loss in quality for PS3 will be negligible if at all. And even if it isn't as good Id still buy a $300 PS3 over a $500-$1000 Blu-ray disc player, and then get a standalone player when it was more reasonably priced. And that says a lot coming from me, because otherwise I wouldn't purchase a PS3 at all. There will be about 1 million consumers who do buy the PS3 however, regardless of HD film content. I still remember when DVD players reached 1 million units, it was a big deal and took some time. Blu-ray is almost garanteed to have that many players in homes in less than a year.