Its hard to beat the MC-1 & Logic 7! (1 Viewer)

[Steve Morgan]

John, how are ya? It was John and Ricky T that persuaded me to buy the MC-1. I sold my Ref 30 and never looked back. John even hooked me up with his dealer in Manassas. I am also curious to see the feed back of the MC-8. John, tell me more about tilt on the MC-1.
Tommy, the Parasound 2205 IMO mates with the Paradigm studio speakers better than any amp I have heard. If you do a search you will see I'm not the only one that has come to this conclusion. I would have liked to see what the Cinenova Grande would do for them. I sold my Studio speakers before I bought the Cinenova. I will say the Cinenova does what the Parasound 2205 does but takes it to another level.Controls the bass much better, brings out the mids and gives more air to the highs. I have very revealing and accurate speakers (Von Schweikerts) and had the 2205 and then the Cinenova powering them. The Cinenova did everything with much more authority than the 2205. Granted you could probably pick up a used 2205 for $1200-$1300 the Cinenova 5 channel will run you about 2k. The extra $800 is worth it in my book.
Steve

 

[LanceJ]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but exactly what is Logic7 doing with all those 2.0 soundtracks (matrixed or otherwise)? I've never heard it--do the sound effects accurately follow the on-screen action?

This bothers me because I've read here several times that some people think all these different DSP surround simulators are the same as Dolby, DTS or dvd-audio surround systems. This is not true IMO. Dolby/DTS/dvd-audio are discrete formats--each channel was originally recorded with material selected by the director, sound engineer or musician. But DSP processors only simulate those extra channels--they cannot possibly "know" what the director/musician desired in each channel.

Here's a perfect example of this confusion: in this article read the seventh & eighth paragraphs. Yikes! Jeez Harmon, is this a simple misunderstanding or does your car dvd-audio player really do that? I hope not!

LJ

 

[Philip Brandes]

Lance,

You are confusing matrixed with discrete sources. No one is saying that a matrix decoder will be identical to a discrete 5.1 mix, but that isn't the point. Rather, the most important use for a matrix decoder is for sources for which a 5.1 mix is not available.

Consider the case of any Dolby Surround source, of which there are many (as explained above, the majority of films are stereo or matrix-encoded). In by-the-book Pro Logic decoding the single mono surround channel is sent to both surround speakers (THX adds phase decorrelation so that the sound doesn't collapse to the nearest surround speaker, but it's still essentially a mono surround signal).

The value of Logic 7 is that it will improve on that standard decoding by performing a more complex signal analysis on all channels in order to obtain correlated steering--i.e., if a car pans from left to right in the front and then continues into the surround channel, instead of having it suddenly jump to both surround speakers Logic 7 will steer it to only the left surround, to be consistent with the sound progression in the front--the result is more natural-sounding pans and steered content that offers the kind localizability we normally associate with discrete 5.1 mixes.

The whole point is that although they are NOT 5.1 mixes, they are not dumb DSP simulators (at least not when they are done right). Logic 7excels at extracting stereo surrounds from a mono surround channel from spatial cues inherent in the source recording, cues which do in fact signal the intentionality of the director/sound enginerr/musician. What differentiates various decoding algorithms is the extent to which they produce the most natural and believable results--i.e., do they clash with the stereo content or extend it? Even with only 5 speakers, Logic 7 is audibly better in this regard than Circle Surround, because it yields more consistently believable steering and rarely if ever miscues. IT further accommodates adding an extra set of surrounds by continuing steering with a natural delay, so that pans run smoothly from say front left to side left to rear left in a continuous arc. Logic 7 is equally effective with more "ambient" surround content--for example, a scene in a crowded restaurant where voices can distinctly be heard as originating from one side or the other.

Cheers,
Ohilip Brandes

 

[John Tompkins]

Hello Steve,

Glad that your enjoying the mc-1, its a great piece of gear!..

Maybe Phillip could explain the tilt feature better then me..but what I found was when adjusting it, that there was a huge difference in my soundstage (expanding far beyond my speakers at the correct adjustment point)...Its been awhile since I had the mc-1 so will let others explain the correct way to set it (Im getting to be an old man and the memory is the second thing to go )

That cinenova must be really nice if its beats the 2205 (which is a great amp to begin with )..if you can hack the heat it puts off.

I must admit that all the movies I care to own in my own dvd collection are 5.1..I guess I need to expand my "movie horizon" with some foreign films etc.

 

[Kevin McCurdy]

John,
Based on your description I think you mean Panorama? Panorama allows you to correct the soundstage based on the front speaker angle. This creates what seems to be a very big front soundstage expanding well beyond the front speakers. The tilt parameter adjusts for tonal balance of the source material.

They are more complex this is my simplified explanantion.

 

[Kevin McCurdy]

Steve,

I bought my unit at the same time as you also based on the advice of both Ricky and John as well. You guys are a bad/expensive influence.

In all seriousness though I'm very glad I did buy the MC-1 and haven't second guessed the purchase since.

I remember demoeing John's system with the MC-1 and Ricky came by that day. After the demo and talking with them my mind was pretty much made up that I had to get the Lexicon.

 

[John Tompkins]

Kevin,

Your right,the panorama is what I was thinking about. I also used the tilt function to.

Maybe Phillip can me an opinion as to whether the mc-12/ mc-8 sonics is more agressive or has a bit more attack then the mc-1 ? (if that makes sense)..I'd love to come back on the Lex. bandwagon someday with the mc-8

 

[LanceJ]

Thanks Philip.

LJ

 

[Steve Morgan]

Kevin,
You as a matter of fact you bought the MC-1 that I was supposed to have.They sent me the one that did not have the V4 chip in it. They did take care of it and had LEx ship me the chip. To show you how well Logic 7 was doing for me I just installed the V4 chip 4 weeks ago. It sat in the bos for 7 months. I still prefer L7 to the ex.
Yea, those guys are baad boys and usually end up costing me when I talk to them. John, what pre/pro are you using now?
Steve

 

[TommyL]

Steve and others..how would you rate is vs the avm20, soundstage, and others in this category? Is the avm20 going to blow them away...I wouldn't think so, but if there are pros and cons all over I best sort through them 1st I found a dealers selling sherbourn amps..I may make a visit if it will team up with any of these...he also has Lex...mc-1 is what I'd be looking at currently. thxs! tl

 

[John-Tompkins]

Steve,

I moved to another house and have a much smaller HT room, as such I felt I couldnt really take advantage of logic 7. I recently got a used Aragon soundstage I am thrilled to death with. It is the best pre-pro Ive had for two-channel and pure analog bypass... Movie processing is also very nice. Both the lex and aragon are excellant units! and neither one is better then the other, they just have different strongsuites.

 

[Steve Morgan]

Tommy,
I have not heard the soundstage,and only breifly heard the AVM 20. John, currently has the Soundstage so he would be a good source for this. These units are all good pre/pros with each having its strong points. for HT I don't think the Lex can be beat. For 2 channel and analog pass-through the Soundstage or the Anthem might be the way to go. I think for DVD's, DSS.VCR and pure HT the MC-1 is the best bang for the buck out there due to Logic 7. It beats Dolby Pro-Logic II hands down,also for a 7.1 set-up in DD or DTS.
Ricky or John might jump in and compare the MC-1 to the Soundstage.
Steve.
Ricky the Servo 15 goes bye bye manana.

 

[John Tompkins]

Steve and others..how would you rate is vs the avm20, soundstage, and others in this category? Is the avm20 going to blow them away...

Tommy, I cant answer for the Anthem but as far as the aragon/lexicon neither one will "blow away" the other. Its like I said, with these units its all about were ones' priorities are. If two-channel and analog bypass(for sacd,dvd-audio or cds,turntable) is the biggest factor for you then I would suggest the anthem,aragon. If on the other hand you have a good room for logic 7 and movies/dss/tv/vcr/older 2.0 dvds are the biggest factor then the mc-1 hands down.

The Aragon to my ears has a slight edge on dynamics/resolution but the lex has better processing (rear soundstage,modes,tweaks etc.)....Pick your posion

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I've personally been toying around with getting the following:

Lex DC-2 or MC-1
Sony TA-P9000ES

Get Logic 7 *and* 5.1 analog passthrough for DVD-A/SACD...

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

Kevin, join the dark side. You know it's just a matter of time before you pick up a Lexicon.

 

[Mark Davenport]

Can't help but post I just picked up an MC-1 for $1599 and it's probably the best audio purchase I've ever made. I use rock/pop L7 on everything and it is freakin unbelievable.

It really gives you a discrete sounding multi channel source out of a stereo recording. I'm using it in a 5.1 set-up right now and would not do without L7. I'll probably be a Lexicon owner the rest of my days.

With all the HT talk do not under estimate how the MC-1 handle's music, to be honest I have yet to watch an actual movie yet I've been playing music all week long.

I also think the lack of analog bypass is not to big a deal. I gave that up for the MC-1 and do not regret it.
When I had 5.1 inputs on my Sony ES I used it about 3 times for MCH DVD-A and SACD and I was under welmed because of the lack of proper DSP's to do proper bass mang. and time alignment plus I'd like to tweak the 5.1 signal but currently there are no DSP's out there that can process DSD in it's native Format. I don't think MCH SACD or DVD-A is ready for primetime yet.

However I do really enjoy listening to the stereo high rez layers on SACD and DVD-A and letting Logic 7 works it's magic. The 5.1 mix that it creates out of SACD and DVD-A is really remarkable.

So don't play down Lexicon's ability to play high quality music as well as HT.

 

[TommyL]

how would the lex mc-1 a sherbourn 5/5120amp and paradigm studio 40's / 20's sound? just narrowing down what I want to or can audition up here in northern mn would the sherbourn match up well with the rest? thanks guys..this thread is helping out a lot both in advice and my wallet tom

 

[Mark Davenport]

Hi
This is to Kevin Brown the MC-8 does have 5.1 analog inputs in fact it has 2 pair of 5.1 inputs however this takes up your other RCA inputs leaving you with only one pair of stereo RCA inputs if you use two 5.1 channel inputs. It's a nice option though. But you cannout re digitize the 5.1 channel inputs on the MC-8, only the MC-12 will allow this which would will also let you overlay Logic7 and other DSP modes on top of the 5.1 channel inputs.

 

[Kevin McCurdy]

Mark,

That was a great price for the MC-1.

I agree with you regarding the MC-1 and music it's no slouch. I have the TA-P9000ES with the MC-1 and have gone back and forth between both, volumes leveled out, same source and found it hard to tell them apart.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

My internal debate is becoming:

DC-2/MC-1 for around $1750 plus about $500 for the P9000ES

vs

MC-8, which I have a lead on for the low $3k's...

I think the DC-2/MC-1 do not have DPL II, right? But honestly, with L7 for 2 channel sources, would I care?

Quick question too, (Dang, I should have kept all that DC-2/MC-1 stuff I printed out about 6 months ago...): these 2 do have DD EX (THX EX) and DTS-ES, right? So do you "overlay" L7 processing on top of EX/ES decoding, or is it a question of EX/ES *or* L7 (of DD/DTS)?

Not that easy to find P9000ES' either. I can remember when they came out, and I told myself I didn't need one because my next pre/pro would have that capability. Silly me.


Gabriel...