its been awhile... Can i get a sub?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Mike_Craft, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. Mike_Craft

    Mike_Craft Stunt Coordinator

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    2 years ago I bought a 500 watt reciver and hooked up 5 speakers for a nice DTS + DD system. Anyway I finally have come across some extra money and want to buy a subwoofer. is it even possible to hook a sub upto my system cause I dont see a place to conect it?

    I have like a 6 RCA imputs labeld for 5 speakers and a subwoofer but doesent a sub connect threw copper wire like my speakers?

    sorry for my ignorance but its been too long since I looked into this stuff and have forgoten everything.
     
  2. Shannon S.

    Shannon S. Stunt Coordinator

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    The subwoofer will hook up by a single cable, not speaker wire, from the sub out on the receiver to the "line level" in on the back of the subwoofer.
     
  3. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Yes, *most* (but not all) subwoofers are self-powered. Meaning that they contain their own amplifiers to power them. You run a line level signal from the sub pre-out on your receiver to the subwoofer. You also have to plug the subwoofer into the wall.

    Some subwoofers are not self-powered, so you'd need to purchase the subwoofer part, and then also an outboard amp. Then wire a line level interconnect to the amp, and then speaker wire to the sub.
     
  4. Steve Adams

    Steve Adams Second Unit

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    goto partsexpress.com and order the 99 dollar dayton 10". Awsome peice of work!. for not alot of money!
     
  5. Mike_Craft

    Mike_Craft Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks.. do I need a certain sub to go with my system? like with a certain power level or whatnot? or since it will have its own amp like you said then I can get whatever power I want?

    BTW if it helps, my reciver is a JVC RX-6020vbk
     
  6. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Mike

    The Dayton is at 110 right now. Seems it goes down to 99 at times.
     
  7. Mike_Craft

    Mike_Craft Stunt Coordinator

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    i dont feel comfortable ordering from an american website.. Got any canadian websites that sell subs?
     
  8. Ryan T

    Ryan T Second Unit

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    you can check out this site for some subwoofer kits if your interested in assembling the enclosure http://www.creativesound.ca/index.html

    They offer the shiva sonotube kit that has great performance but it might be more than you want to spend since it runs around $400 canadian plus the cost of the amp.

    Otherwise I would suggest looking at Paradigm subwoofers. Since your in canada you will get a great pice on them and they are nice subs.



    Ryan
     
  9. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

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    Much like riding a bicycle or using DOS commands, it'll come back to you soon enough with a little practice.
     
  10. Steve Adams

    Steve Adams Second Unit

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    Mike, they are great to deal with...it would cost us in the great white north about 219 cdn for that sub...it's a killer deal. the other route to go is find a sony sa-wm40 sub around. and mod it with some fiber fill and other little mods....works great too...believe me on that.
     
  11. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Correct, however, be clear that this is not zip cord like normal speaker wire, but coaxial cable, which is like any audio interconnect. You will find a subwoofer output (Garrett:it should technically not be labeled as "LFE" output, there is a *very* important distinction between LFE and subwoofer, LFE is NOT a subwoofer channel, but an enhanced bass effects channel with extra headroom. This is not to be confused with a "bass" or "subwoofer" channel, nor the subwoofer output, which is defined by the bass management settings in the receiver).

    To this subwoofer output you will connect an amplified subwoofer. As I an others noted, most subwoofers are all-in-one units with their own amps. Some are not, and need a separate amp, but the end result is the same.

    Because your receiver is not powering the subwoofer, you do not need to worry about power rating or any of that, the subwoofer handles all that, the receiver just sends it the unamplified signal.
     
  12. ChrisBee

    ChrisBee Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris,

    Would you be kind enough to expand a little on your "LFE is NOT bass out & NOT subwoofer out" theme?

    I have been browsing for a more exact understanding of LFE and even Dolby Labs gives a similarly confusing description to LFE to your own. Confusing to me anyway.:b

    Thanks
    ChisBee
     
  13. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    This is an excellent explanation:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...pril-2000.html

    The basic point is that you have 5 full-bandwidth channels, that extend all the way into the bass already. I.E. each of the 5 channel's speakers should be capable of very loud bass, extended all the way down. As a sort of "extra" option, the LFE(.1) track allows even more headroom for bass if needed. But what happens is that since most systems can't have 6 subwoofers, bass management is appied which removes bass from the main channels, adds in the LFE portion, and this gets output to the subwoofer. This allows the main speakers to be smaller, the receiver/amps to work less, and have all the bass handled by a dedicated subwoofer(s).
     
  14. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    So the important distinction, before i decided to hit send too soon [​IMG], is that what get output to the subwoofer is not purely LFE in most cases. This can vary depending on how your Large/Small settings are, and some processors allow very detailed options on where what bass is going. But you can't think of LFE as the "bass" track, because there is often VERY significant bass in all the other channels, and you need to understand where that bass is going, and whether those speakers are capable, or as capable as your subwoofer in handling it, or it needs to be sent to the subwoofer along with the LFE.
     
  15. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Mr. Wiggles, meet the "edit" button. [​IMG]

    M.
     
  16. ChrisBee

    ChrisBee Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for taking the time to answer Chris and thanks for that excellent link. (Safely bookmarked)

    What I've been trying to grasp all along is whether LFE is much more dynamic in the bass when used conventionally as a sub feed within a small satellite 5.1 HT system. Compared with exactly the same active subwoofer fed with "only" a pre-out signal from a stereo amplifier feeding large front floorstanders. (Stereo amps don't have LFE sockets)

    Regards
    ChrisBee
     
  17. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    If you read that article carefully, you should also have gotten that AVR receivers LIKEWISE do *not* have "LFE outputs." It should, if correctly labeled, be called a "subwoofer" output, for the reasons discussed in that article. What is being output is most usually NOT just LFE, and it is misleading and incorrect to label or refer to a sub-out as an LFE output. There *are* situations when that output can be handling only LFE, which depends on how you have your bass management functions setup.
     
  18. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    This is a bit confusing.

    When using a subwoofer with a small satellite 5.1 HT system you would use bass management to divert all of the bass from the 5 satellite speakers to the subwoofer as the small satellite speakers won't reproduce it. The separate LFE channel would also go to the sub. So unamplified bass from all channels plus the LFE would be sent out to the sub via the subwoofer pre-out on the reciever or processor.
    The LFE in and of itself would not be any more powerful, but the addition of the bass redirected from the other channels would result in much more powerful bass than if you were only using the sub to reproduce the LFE material.

    On a stereo only system you would not use a Subwoofer pre-out as the stereo receiver or amplifier doesn't have one and there is no bass management capability in the receiver.

    In this case you would run your line-level left and right speaker wires to the left and right line level speaker in connections on the powered subwoofer. Then you would run speaker wire from the sub's left and right speaker wire out connections to the left and right speakers. There are volume and crossover knobs on the back of the sub.

    The crossover knob determines which frequencies will be reproduced by the sub and which will be reproduced by the left and right speakers. For example, if you set the crossover to 80hz, frequencies below 80hz will be reproduced by the sub and those above 80 hz will be sent out to the mains, with some overlap to prevent holes in frequency response. Nothing significantly below 80hz will be sent out to the mains and nothing significantly above 80hz will be reproduced by the sub.

    The volume knob on the sub adjusts the volume only of the sub's output.

    With this line-level connection and the two knobs on the back of the sub you are essentially duplicating the bass management features of a Dolby Digital and/or DTS capable 5.1 receiver.

    This means that if you have only 2 channel capability right now, you can still use a powered subwoofer and still can get the same bass performance as you would with a 5.1 system.

    With large floorstanding speakers in a 2 channel system you wouldn't get much advantage from a powered sub for most music that doesn't have a thumping bass line, but it would be helpful for action movies on dvd. One advantage is that with a powered sub the stereo amp won't have to drive the power hungry low bass from the mains, as the sub with it's own amplification will have taken on that load.
     
  19. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Not really. You're actually not managing anything at all.

    All you're doing is feeding stereo full range signals from an analog source. Makes no difference if it were the radio, a CD, or from the stereo outputs on a DVD player. Bass management allows you to direct bass where you have a subwoofer, or speakers capable of reproducing it. The options of how extensively you can tailor where what bass is going will vary, high-end processors have lots of options for directing things very specifically, sometimes among multiple subwoofers.

    With a stereo receiver, you have no control on where the bass goes, it comes in in stereo, and gets amplified, and that's it. By using a subwoofer, you can attempt to reproduce that as you would any stereo source. But it isn't bass management.
     
  20. ChrisBee

    ChrisBee Stunt Coordinator

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    My sincere apologies. I have obviously not expressed myself clearly enough.

    Let me put this as simply as possible:

    Why are high level connections now considered inferior to an LFE feed to an active subwoofer?

    What am I missing with high level connections? (If anything)

    Regards
    ChrisBee
     

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