ISF Calibration Results - Michigan

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dave H, Dec 18, 2001.

  1. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I recently had my two-year-old 4X3 61" Sony (KP-61V80) ISF calibrated. After making many calls at various places that were ISF certified (according to the ISF Web site), I was less than impressed with my responses. For example, each of these are from different places and not exagerrated:

    "Why would you want anyone to come out to your home if nothing is wrong with your TV?!"

    "You want a what?!! ISF? What the hell is that?"

    "ISF's are only for projectors that cost $30,000 or more...you would never know the diffence if we did it on your TV. Go buy Video Essentials."


    Several other places never even returned my call.

    So, I ran across a place in the same city I live in and received prompt action. They returned my calls and I was able to talk with the ISF tech at great lengths so I knew he knew something. He was also pleasant to talk to and professional. He also said he would do as much research as he could on my TV - including contacting ISF.

    After arriving at my house (on schedule), he took a look around at my TV, DVD player, etc. He asked me several questions about my viewing conditions, etc. He took some time to become familar with my TV and recorded its settings, etc. and hooked up the color analyzer and had the laptop.

    Before correcting the grayscale, it was realized (as I've been suspecting for sometime) that my TV had some convergence issues, particularly with blue. So, I had him do the full convergence since this would affect grayscale.

    He also reduced my TV's overscan - however, he said they had it at the level they did because of internal flaws. Reducing lower than 3-5% (from 7-10%)meant the picture integrity would get flawed.

    He said my convergence was the biggest problem with my TV and that the grayscale wasn't too bad.

    Here are my pre/post calibration results:

    IRE PRE-CALIB. POST-CALIB.

    100 7849 +b+g 7050

    90 8060 -b+g 6860

    80 8440 +b+g 6559

    70 8773 +b+g 6230

    65 8454 +b+g 6100

    60 8774 +b+g 5890

    55 9344 +b+g 5900

    50 9102 +b+g 5952

    45 8720 +b 6000

    40 9018 +b-g 6334

    30 6981 +b-g 6280

    20 9364 +b-g 6865

    So, how did DVDs look afterward?

    Significant improvement. Movies are more 3D-like and the color depth and richness have increased. In addition, fewer artifacts are visible. Prior to the calibration, I didn't like using the "fine" mode of my DVD player because of the increased artifacts (despite more detail). Now, I can watch movies in "fine" mode without the artifacts and get the greater detail.

    Furthermore, by decreasing overscan, the scanlines are less noticable - something I really like.

    I can see an improvement with cable, as well. However, the results are more noticable on DVD.

    So, overall, I am happy.

    However, there are still a few minor things.

    1. The tech told me that my overscan was too much, but there is a compromise. Fixing the overscan has meant that I see a very faint small red line in the bottom corner of my picture. This is not severe by any means - and hardly noticable - but the tech thinks it is probably because we adjusted the overscan and that to remove the line would mean to increase overscan and do another convergence. However, I don't want to do that because that would re-introduce the original problem. In other words, this is much better than before. However, he's trying to get info. and more tips to see if this can be corrected in a different way.

    He told me there was a flaw (so to speak) when my TV was made and they attempted to corect this my INCREASING the overscan to the level they did.

    He also said it was very hard to red converge my TV on the bottom right hand corner because of the changes in overscan.

    2. When watching widescreen movies (or commercials with black bars) the actual bottom of the picture seems to be curved very slightly and is not perfectly centered with the black bars - so the top black bar seems to be angled a bit. The tech told me that to fix this, this would most likely require overscan change - and again - this is a compromise. However, increasing the overscan means back to the way my TV used to look. I mean I much rather have it this way than the old way which shows the scan lines more and artifacts, etc.

    3. SVM (or VSM). He cannot find this information despite talking with ISF and other Sony techs about this TV. Switching to/from "movie" mode to any other mode makes NO difference in regards to SVM on the needle pulses patterns. This info. is not in the service manual. My service manual codes are difference than the Sony XBR and WEGA and other Sony's info. I've seen. On any rate, as soon as he gets more info. about this, he is coming back out (at no charge) to try to fix this and take another look at problems 1 and 2 I mentioned. However, even if nothing else can be done, I'm happy. But, always looking for the best results. He contacted Sony, as well. They were of no help. I tried contacting them, but they wouldn't give me the info. since I'm not an "Authorized Sony Tech" even though I said it shouldn't matter since I should be able to know and do whatever I want to do to MY TV.

    What do you think about these issues I've numbered? Have you ISF people out there encountered these issues?

    On any rate, I would recommend them.

    If your in the area and interested, here is some info.

    ISF cost (RPTV) $250.00

    (Direct) $175.00

    Covergence $75.00 (per hour - but that's all it took)

    MAS Information Age Technologies

    Southfield, MI

    (248) 352-0162
     
  2. Andrew Grall

    Andrew Grall Supporting Actor

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    I am looking to have my TV ISF-calibrated. I live in Berkley, MI, and have a Toshiba 50H81.

    Here are the services I want performed: (taken from a website)

    An entry level RPTV calibration costs including the following:

    Greyscale calibration to the correct D6500 Kelvin color temperature reference standard for one input type (super-video, component-interlace, component-progressive, HDTV) utilizing Sencore's CP-288 ColorPro color analyzer, VP-300 Multimedia Video Generator and various other reference discs to attain proper white balance. Optimization of brightness, contrast, color, tint and sharpness controls to newly corrected greyscale. Overscan adjustment to ensure image centering and to properly exhibit the entire picture content. Electronic SVM disablement (where applicable) to eliminate excessive edge noise and neutralization of any auto features (auto-color, noise reduction, iris, etc.) that may adversely affect picture quality. Pre and post ISF & Sencore calibration reports are then given for the customer's records followed by a consultation on video imagery as it pertains to the display device and viewing environment in question.

    Additionally I want:

    Electrostatic and mechanical focus for superior sharpness and detail

    Optics cleaning to minimize smudge, haze and/or halo effects

    And possibly - Glare-screen removal for improved black definition as well as eliminating glare and possible lenticular sag reflections

    Can you comment on their ability to do these correctly? I'm a little surprised they took only an hour to do the work...

    Or should I wait for one of these other guys to do a tour of Michigan? There are a couple of ISF technicians who I know are quite qualified coming in February and April. Of course, since they are travelling it might be more expensive.

    Thanks.
     
  3. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    Hi Dave, I am going to edit your Header to indicate where you live.

    Gregg
     
  4. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Andrew,
    Only the convergence took an hour (actually longer). He was at my house for about four hours. He was very meticulous and precise. We talked about various things regarding the ISF calibration.
    Looking at your list, I had most of these things done.
    Here is what I would do.
    I would call MAS. Then, ask to speak to the actual tech - his name is Onassis (I know he's on vacation until after Christmas). Ask him any questions you have - tell him about your TV, etc. I think for the price, it's a very good deal. However, YOU need to feel comfortable with anyone you have out and you really need to talk to the guy. Also, I don't think they do all the extras such as lens striping, etc.
    The more DVDs I watch since the calibration the more and more better things look since the calibration. I should have had this done a long time ago. [​IMG]
     
  5. Andrew Grall

    Andrew Grall Supporting Actor

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    Dave,

    Did he bring a convergence grid especially for your TV when he did the convergence? I would hope that is what they do...

    Thanks.
     
  6. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    No, he didn't. Is this something recommended? He used the grid the TV brought up. My convergence is looking good now. My only concern is how my picture is slightly off-centered to the left. I know he's coming back out.
     
  7. Andrew Grall

    Andrew Grall Supporting Actor

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    It is something I would expect from a professional, but I'm not sure if it is customary. It make me wonder if that is why your "T" is gone...

    I'm still debating whether to try someone local or if I'll wait for Eliab...
     
  8. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    As I said before, he's coming out back out to take a look at it. I don't see this as anything major that shouldn't be able to be corrected. I could be wrong, but I don't see this as a convergence issue. I think it might have something to do with the overscan or something else. You can tell when convergence is wrong, as I don't see this. (As stated before, it appears that my TV doesn't allow for a lot of overscan correction without some geometrically distortion which is why the factory set the overscan as they did.) Even putting up the Avia crosspatch pattern shows very white, sharp crosses. And when converence is an issue, you certainly see color fringes on people and images in movies, etc.

    Overall, My TV looks much better and have been very happy - other that the problem I described about the centering.
     
  9. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Producer

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    I am in the market for a RPTV and this is the first time I've heard of ISF calibration. How often is something like this done to a RPTV?

    Are there any manufacturers that deliver more accurately calibrated TVs from the factory than others?

    Is there any chance this could be done DIY?

    Just tossing out a bunch of newbie questions.

    -=>DP
     
  10. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Typically you want to wait and let a new RPTV TV break in about 100 hours before having an ISF calibration. To my knowledge, having it done once is enough. (You may want to click on the link on this forum that will connect the ISF Web site to look for ISF techs in your area. Also, there are notable ISF people on this forum that are very good from what I hear.)

    However, over time, you may need a re-convergence or tweak as your CRTs tend to "drift" over time. Sony TVs have "Flash Focus" which do a convergence to help solve (supposedly) the drifting problem.

    Being a newbie and if I were you, I would do a simple "search" in this forum and read previous ISF treads as there is lots of great information in these previous treads.
     

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