Is VSM that important on a 27" set?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by KenMc, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is velocity scan modulation VSM a needed thing on the new sets? Reason being, is BB has two 27" Toshiba models. One with flat tube and the other slightly curved. The curved one doesn't advertise it, but while I was at BB I took the remote for the flat one with 16:9 squeeze and it will also put the squeeze on the curved one, they just don't advertise it nor does the supplied remote have the 16:9 button on the remote. I'm not sure if the curved has VSM or not but does it make that much of a difference on a 27" set? Also, is the flat screen that much better than a curved one? It's an $80 difference in both models is why I ask.
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The flatter the better in general. But nothing wrong with a great more curved screen either.

    VSM can cause more problems than it solves. Many people try to find a way to turn it off on displays that have it.
     
  3. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hmm... i didn't know that vsm actually caused problems. like what problems does it cause? lines on whites like in menus from dvd's?
     
  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ken, VSM stands for "velocity scan modulation." Basically, it's artificial edge-enhancement, scanning more frequently over the borders of lighter and darker objects. Fake. If you have the ability to turn it off, do so (most Sonys, for example, enable the viewer to defeat VSM altogether). Also, you should reduce the so-called "Sharpness" control to as low as possible.
     
  5. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmm.. What's the point of offering it on the more expensive sets then? Selling point? I wonder if the Toshiba can defeat VSM at all. If I end up getting the curved screen it doesn't have VSM anyways.
     
  6. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ken, VSM is not "offered"; it's a fact of life for all CRT-based home-video displays. Some companies, however, are touting it as something "extra." It's not; it's standard. File it under "m" for "marketing." A video purist will always turn it off if he or she can.
     
  7. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Michael Chen
    Greetings

    I'd rather see real edges and real detail than have fake edges covering up real stuff. If you see the fake stuff, then what do you think is hiding behind it?

    It was put in to work on TV sets where people like to max out the contrast (torch mode) but at those levels ... the real image is "dying" as you are also killing the TV faster.

    Dying images become soft images ... so in comes the SVM to add artificial edges to the image. It makes it look like it is still okay, but it isn't.

    Regards
     
  8. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ahhhh, ok I get it. Is there a way to find out if a particular display has the ability to defeat the VSM before I take the plunge?
     
  9. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,791
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0

    It is, actually, "offered." As noted it is used to increase the image contrast at high-contrast boundaries and improve perceptions of sharpness, depth, and punch. There are displays that do not have any kind of VSM-type circuitry.

    Many displays that do have VSM "features" can have them disabled, sometimes this is more complicated than others. You can examine VSM quite well using a needle-pulses test pattern and comparing the width of the black-on-white line with the white-on-black line and if they maintain equal width.
     
  10. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Got to a store and cruise through the menus of the sets you are interested in. Or, try to get a hold of a manual. A lot of manufactureres offer them for download now. I also try to turn this "feature" off. Not necessary if you have a good source signal.
     
  11. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I tried running through the menus but I couldn't find anything related to velocity scan anywhere; maybe it's in a service menu? Still not sure if we're going to get the 27a45 or the 27af45. It's a big price difference and the only thing the 27af45 has over the other one is one more button on the remote, the flat screen, and the velocity scan, which may also be on the other model but just not advertised. Kind of like the 16:9 squeeze that the salesperson told me didn't exist on the cheaper set, but I used the 27af45's remote and put the squeeze on ALL the sets at BB. That salesperson was dumbfounded!!! He told me to get whichever one I wanted since they all look the same/perform the same with the exception of one being flat and the other being almost flat. My girlfriend actually thought the curved one was flat, which it wasn't.
     
  12. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My impression is, based on buying my last 2 CRT sets, is that most sets have VSM. But it's the more advanced (usually more expensive ones) that allow you to turn it off.

    Maybe you can check Toshiba's web site? It's possible it doesn't have it, but then you're better off anyway. [​IMG]
     
  13. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They don't advertise it on the 27a45. They also don't advertise the 16:9 mode on it, but it does it along with the more expensive model. I'm almost willing to bet that both sets do the same things, only difference is that they market it on the more expensive set. Even the rear jacks and molding are the same. Only difference between the sets that I can tell is the flat screen on one, and some different moldings on the front of the tv. Even the remote is the same minus the 16:9 button on one remote; which doesn't matter because I will be using a universal to control it anyways. So, I will have that 16:9 button regardless, even if that means going to BB and "borrowing" the code froma floor model.
     
  14. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's neat about the 16:9 mode.

    Does the more expensive one have VSM?
     
  15. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the more expensive one advertises VSM but I would be willing to bet that it has it on the cheaper one as well, much like the 16:9 mode. I'm probably going to get the cheaper one unless i get a bargain on it. There's no need to spend the extra money when I plan on getting an HD set whenever I get a full time job. Fresh out of college is a pain.
     
  16. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK, I'd be willing to bet the cheaper one has it too, just that they won't let you turn it off. If you are going to upgrade sometime in the future, I wouldn't sweat it too much on this one. [​IMG]

    What you *might* want to do, is to dig around and see if you an get a service manual so you can get into the service menu. Maybe a way in there to turn it off.

    But a lot of people say BEWARE with messing around with items in the service menu. I say, just be careful.
     
  17. KenMc

    KenMc Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The more expensive one didn't have the option in the standard menu from what I could find. I'm not worried about messing around with the service menu. I've been tweaking anyhting I get my hands on since I could turn a screw driver or plug in a soldering iron [​IMG] It's only a SD 27". If I cannot turn it off I don't think it will be the end of the world. Thanks everyone for the help [​IMG]
     
  18. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    3,975
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is it possible to get into the service mode to turn OFF the velocity scan modulation on a Toshiba 27AF46C? How do I get into the service menu and how do I turn off VSM?

    How do I perform the squeeze with this set? (with an older JVC I was able to do a squeeze by going into the service menu).

    thanx,

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page