Is this Warm, Bright, or Neutral?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Shawn N, Oct 28, 2003.

  1. Shawn N

    Shawn N Agent

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    Is the Denon ARV-1804 Bright, Warm, or Neutral?

    --Also how does this reciever compare with:

    Harman/Kardon AVR-230
    or
    Yamaha HTR-5560
     
  2. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    By reputation,

    Denon is considered neither warm nor bright. Some say they are neutral. I personally find they tend to be lifeless when it comes to music, but they do a great job for home theater and are very reliable. Owners tend to be very loyal.

    HK is considered warm and musical. They rate their amps accurately so the WPC ratings appear lower than the competition, but they test as more powerful than competitors. Owners tend to listen to a great deal of music in addition to home theater. Frequently, those who ask for help with choices have narrowed them down to HK or Denon.

    Yamaha of the three, has tended to be considered "bright". Owners have tended to be very loyal, but Yamaha is less popular than Denon and HK. Good quality products that don't often show up in the forums as "Having a problem with my Yamaha receiver", and have been around for many years.

    What's best? Depends on what you want/can afford/think sounds best. They are all good products.
     
  3. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Shawn:

    The terms are meaningless. The only way to know how the receiver will perform is to demo it in your room with your associated equipment. The "sound" of your system will be much more greatly (if not exclusively) influenced by these other factors.

    It's much more useful to compare receivers in the same price category by their feature sets, and then let your ears decide.
     
  4. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    Shawn, I agree with Angelo.M.

    Angelo.M, but he asked[​IMG]
     
  5. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Doug:

    No worries. [​IMG]

    You very nicely summarized the "party line" around here. But one man's "bright" is another man's "detailed", one man's "warm" is another's "muddy" and one man's "neutral" is another's "flat." [​IMG]
     
  6. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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  7. ChrisLazarko

    ChrisLazarko Supporting Actor

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    I think Doug has a good explanation on it. I was lookingat Yamaha recievers but there WPC rating is a bunch of crap unless you are looking to pay about $700+ to afford there high-end recievers which rate correctly.

    Denon and HK are the two best I believe, although HK I have to agree is better for music I think.

    My main choice for taking a HK over a Denon? I liked htem both, but the HK had a nicer sound and it looked awesome. Dollar for dollar I don't think you can beat a HK until you get into seperates.
     
  8. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    As usual, "what Angelo said." And well said at that.
     
  9. altan

    altan Stunt Coordinator

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    Stating up front that "warm", "bright", etc, are all subjective, can someone give me their subjective definition of these terms?

    ... Altan
     
  10. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    altan:

    I'd be happy to give you my subjective definition of "warm," but of what use would it be to you?

    While I'm at it, I would also like to describe the color blue
    to you...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. altan

    altan Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok ok ok...

    When discussing colors, I believe "warm" and "cold" have definite meanings (more red, more blue).

    I was hoping that someone could give me their interpretation of these audio terms ("warm", "neutral", etc) in a more scientific manner. For example, if a square wave was reproduced by a "warm" receiver, it would have what characteristics (in that person's opinion). I would expect a "neutral" receiver to output exactly what it is provided as input...

    ... Altan
     
  12. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    Interesting analogy of a Squarewave input. IMHO a SW would look like its edges have been rounded off if the amp is warm sounding. It would look like a SW if the amp is neurtral and if it was bright the SW would have some ultrasonic ringing with some some overshoot. Again its just a guess based on my hearing. YMMV.
     
  13. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Well, given that the terms themselves are not scientific to begin with but are purely subjective observations fueled by psychology rather than genuine evidence ...
     
  14. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Jack is dead on here.
     
  15. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    Can someone describe how an orange tastes?
     
  16. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Rather citrus-like I'd say. BTW, what're you gonna use to play a square wave?
     
  17. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Hey, I had an orange at lunch. At first, it wasn't very revealing, so I let it break-in by rolling it around a bit. Subsequent bites were fairly bright, perhaps a bit forward, certainly detailed. The finish was warm, if not a tad bloated; I wouldn't go so far as to say muddy.
     
  18. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    (Waiting to see how many posts go by before this becomes a thread about beer.)
     
  19. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    I used to have a page bookmarked that had less subjective definitions to all these terms. Don't know where it is now, but if I find it I'll post it.
    One thing I remember from that page is that bright is actually a good thing that has come to mean a bad thing. It actually refers to things being revealed in a good way, but people usually use it to mean "forward" or shrill (though I'm paraphrasing and don't recall whether those exact words are used).

    If I was a bit brighter I'd reveal a more detailed answer to these muddy definitions. Though I have my audio preferences, I try to remain neutral. Sometimes that falls flat. Hope you don't think I'm being to forward. I'm usually pretty laid back. Wish I was thin and rich.

    Warmly,
    Doug
     
  20. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    IMHO, if you buy into these terms, the following things can sound bright (meaning excessive treble) or dark (meaning insufficent treble) or warm (meaning rolled off treble, but not that it is completely missing):

    A recording. A Speaker. A room. And, a recording played over a speaker in a room.

    The following, if properly designed, can not.

    An amplifier. A Cable. A Digital Player.

    I don't personally accept that a device (in this case, an A/V receiver), which will likely measure flat from 20hz to 20Khz, +/- fractions of a dB, has a sound of anything other than the recording that is passing through it.

    Of course, this is all a matter of personal taste and opinion. I pesonally follow the teachings of the Audio Critic on this stuff.

    BGL
     

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