Is there a legal way to make a family-friendly DVD from THE DEAD ZONE? (1 Viewer)

[Dick]

This is the part of you post that bugs me the most.

This movie isn't meant to be a family friendly experience.

I get that, Tony. Certainly I wasn't suggesting this would be good subject matter for grade- schoolers, even with the "offending" minutes removed. But there is food for thought in this film regarding love and loss, having to cope with an unusual talent, accepting that you are going to have to use that skill to save countless lives by destroying pure evil, even if it means sacrificing yourself. Those and more are quite beautifully woven into King's thoughtful and introspective novel, and are faithfully re-created by Cronenberg in one of his best films. I simply feel that the inclusion of the suicide -- which needn't have even been depicted onscreen in the first place -- and the crime that leads up to it simply feel out of place and add a very episodic feel to an otherwise tight and superbly-plotted film.

Now, sir, be honest -- aren't there favorite movies in your life that, if could just edit out one unfortunate moment or sequence, would be even better? Not for the world at large, mind you...but for you and your family? That's all this is about.

You're right, this was never meant to be a "family film" and I was careless if I suggested otherwise. But, IMHO, it certainly could be made more appropriate for a wider (i.e. slightly younger) PG-13 audience if those minutes were removed. Frankly, I do not even enjoy that part of the film I otherwise cherish, and will try to skip over it in the future even when watching by myself. And I assure you, I am not the prudish type. THE WILD BUNCH is one of my favorite "violent films" and I love the graphic sexuality of some Bertolucci films. This business in THE DEAD ZONE just feels like a completely superfluous sequence that drags the whole film down a notch.

Just me!

 

[TonyD]

I appreciate your well presented opinion. But truthfully for me there has never been a movie that I would want to watch edited.

I just think there are movies that would have been better with some better editing but not for inappropriate material.

Movies that in my opinion that have inappropriate material I choose not to watch and leave it for the people that like it to watch.

There's a long topic discussing family friendly re-edits going on around here. This probably falls into that discussion.

 

[TonyD]

But, IMHO, it certainly could be made more appropriate for a wider (i.e. slightly younger) PG-13 audience if those minutes were removed.

But that's the issue. It wasn't meant for that.
That audience wasn't the target.
It's improper to remove sections of a movie just because you don't want your kids to see it yet.

Don't show them that movie.
I'm sure there is a similar show that is more age specific.

 

[Dick]

But that's the issue. It wasn't meant for that.
That audience wasn't the target.
It's improper to remove sections of a movie just because you don't want your kids to see it yet.

Don't show them that movie.
I'm sure there is a similar show that is more age specific.

Guess I haven't been explaining my position very well, so I think it best to drop this conversation. I will continued to pursue an edited edition of the film, while the unedited original remains fully available for all. If I buy a replica of the Mona Lisa and decide to give her a third eye and show her tongue sticking out, I can do it, right? The original is still out there, and I am simply imposing my preferences on the copy I own.

Anyway, Tony, it's been fun.

 

[TonyD]

Ha yeh. We're just not gonna see eye to eye on this. I know you don't want to change the movie for everyone. Just for your family. I understand why. I just don't agree.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Since I just recently watched it I will mention here that Silver Bullet is a film of a King story that I think would work better for kids than adults...and it is oddly R-rated, I believe only because King's script gives characters a few too many F-bombs to drop. I found it odd that the story is told from the perspective of the children in the film, a brother and sister (the sister narrates the story) but the film was rated R basically removing the audience that it would best play to. It also has a focus on family and the bonds between family members. It deals with loss and trust and imagination and how children interact with adults and their siblings. I think The Dead Zone is a better film but in terms of King movies for kids Silver Bullet is a perfect fit. It feels like King filtered through Spielberg circa his ET phase. It has no nudity and the violence is incredibly tame for an R-rated feature. So, as long as a few F-bombs do not bother you then it is perfect family viewing.

King wrote the screenplay for this one and I guess wanted his dialogue intact and I think one of the kids also uses the F-word once which may have been too much for the censors. Anyway, in terms of King for a "PG-13 audience" Silver Bullet works. I guess they took the R-rating because it was the 1980s and they felt that an R was better for selling a horror film but nothing in the picture would warrant an R other than they did an F-word count and they exceeded the 3 times you could use it before it became "adult" content. And just to be clear they never use it in the "sexual" usage...it is used just as a curse word in the "damn it" way.

 

[Alf S]

But there is food for thought in this film regarding love and loss, having to cope with an unusual talent, accepting that you are going to have to use that skill to save countless lives by destroying pure evil, even if it means sacrificing yourself. Those and more are quite beautifully woven into King's thoughtful and introspective novel,

Certainly there has to be dozens if not hundreds of movies geared towards KIDS that achieve the exact same goal you are shooting for. Why destroy a film NOT made for kids just to push your agenda on them? It makes no sense to me at least.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Since I just recently watched it I will mention here that Silver Bullet is a film of a King story that I think would work better for kids than adults...and it is oddly R-rated, I believe only because King's script gives characters a few too many F-bombs to drop. I found it odd that the story is told from the perspective of the children in the film, a brother and sister (the sister narrates the story) but the film was rated R basically removing the audience that it would best play to. It also has a focus on family and the bonds between family members. It deals with loss and trust and imagination and how children interact with adults and their siblings. I think The Dead Zone is a better film but in terms of King movies for kids Silver Bullet is a perfect fit. It feels like King filtered through Spielberg circa his ET phase. It has no nudity and the violence is incredibly tame for an R-rated feature. So, as long as a few F-bombs do not bother you then it is perfect family viewing.

King wrote the screenplay for this one and I guess wanted his dialogue intact and I think one of the kids also uses the F-word once which may have been too much for the censors. Anyway, in terms of King for a "PG-13 audience" Silver Bullet works. I guess they took the R-rating because it was the 1980s and they felt that an R was better for selling a horror film but nothing in the picture would warrant an R other than they did an F-word count and they exceeded the 3 times you could use it before it became "adult" content. And just to be clear they never use it in the "sexual" usage...it is used just as a curse word in the "damn it" way.

I'll defer to your memory, since it would be better than mine on this one [haven't watched it since the VHS was first released], but I seem to recall a substantial amount of blood and some gruesome transformation sequences in this one. I'm sure coverage was shot for a TV-version, as this has played on TV. I've always felt the "2 f-bomb" rule was rather arbitrary and made little sense; All the President's Men got its R overturned on appeal, in spite of the presence of 11 uses of the f-word. There has been a rather feeble attempt at examining context in terms of the word's usage; I'm reasonably certain that if the MPAA board ever got the opportunity to be flies on the wall of a junior high school, their ears would curdle at the language.

I have a lot of problems with the arbitrary nature of the MPAA's ratings, as well as the descriptions of reasons for ratings. My favourite example will always be The Virgin Suicides, which was rated R for "strong thematic elements involving teens." What does that even mean? If you read between the lines and actually watch the film, you begin to understand that the primary issue concerning the MPAA was

Spoiler

the depiction of the aftermath of the Lisbon girls' suicides. No actual act of committing suicide is shown on screen. Granted, the impact is quite shocking, but if it weren't for attitudes towards suicide, this film would have wound up with a PG-13.

 

[Dick]

But there is food for thought in this film regarding love and loss, having to cope with an unusual talent, accepting that you are going to have to use that skill to save countless lives by destroying pure evil, even if it means sacrificing yourself. Those and more are quite beautifully woven into King's thoughtful and introspective novel,

Certainly there has to be dozens if not hundreds of movies geared towards KIDS that achieve the exact same goal you are shooting for. Why destroy a film NOT made for kids just to push your agenda on them? It makes no sense to me at least.

I would be destroying nothing. The original, unedited film is always available. As I mentioned, I do not believe in censorship, and would never consider imposing the cuts I have in mind onto the public at large. This is a very personal thing.

Damn! I never thought my OP could stir up this much controversy!

I like this movie immensely because it has much to say about relationships, loss, and personal responsibility, more so than most films I can think of. It simply has what I consider to be a superfluous R-rated sequence that doesn't summarily forward the plot.

But this is all still okay, because we can agree to disagree. All I wanted to know was whether a program existed with which I could cut a certain segment and whether or not it would be legal to do so. Period. And thanks for the supportive replies.

Please, let's leave it at that!

 

[Dick]

In terms of King for a "PG-13 audience" Silver Bullet works. I guess they took the R-rating because it was the 1980s and they felt that an R was better for selling a horror film but nothing in the picture would warrant an R other than they did an F-word count and they exceeded the 3 times you could use it before it became "adult" content. And just to be clear they never use it in the "sexual" usage...it is used just as a curse word in the "damn it" way.

That's one reason why the MPAA is a completely irrelevant group (as Roger Ebert frequently pointed out). If even one use of the word "fuck" is allowed in, and it takes more than three for a film to be relegated to an "R" rating, just who are the idiots devising such policies? Why would 300 uses of that word in a film be more offensive for a child's ears than one? Why would one? As George Carlin was fond of reminding us, these are just words. It's the context that matters.

And the hypocrisy is unending... "adult language" and mild nudity will get a film an "R" long before graphic violence. What 6-year-old hasn't heard the word "fuck" spoken thousands of times in the home or elsewhere or seen a woman's nipples and nether parts? He'd have to have been born into a strict religious household, perhaps Amish, that had no internet access, never being exposed to any outside examples of such things.

Personally, I quickly tire of hearing the word "fuck" (I'm up to three now in this post....if I use the word again here, I guess I'll be censored or at least given an "R" rating) in movies because, to me, it smacks of laziness on the part of a screenwriter. Hell, the wittiest scripts ever written for movies were loaded with innuendo, but never resorted to using the actual offending words, and probably wouldn't have even if they'd been permitted in the 30's-50's.

Anyway, the double-standards are appalling.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Dick's post has been Rated "R" by himself:

 

[Dick]

Dick's post has been Rated "R" by himself:

I love that white against black graphic, I must say. And generally I do not resort to that language in my posts...just making a point. Rensselaer must be just a bit north of Westchester County, no? I lived in Chappaqua for 15 years growing up.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I'll defer to your memory, since it would be better than mine on this one [haven't watched it since the VHS was first released], but I seem to recall a substantial amount of blood and some gruesome transformation sequences in this one. I'm sure coverage was shot for a TV-version, as this has played on TV. I've always felt the "2 f-bomb" rule was rather arbitrary and made little sense; All the President's Men got its R overturned on appeal, in spite of the presence of 11 uses of the f-word. There has been a rather feeble attempt at examining context in terms of the word's usage; I'm reasonably certain that if the MPAA board ever got the opportunity to be flies on the wall of a junior high school, their ears would curdle at the language.

I have a lot of problems with the arbitrary nature of the MPAA's ratings, as well as the descriptions of reasons for ratings. My favourite example will always be The Virgin Suicides, which was rated R for "strong thematic elements involving teens." What does that even mean? If you read between the lines and actually watch the film, you begin to understand that the primary issue concerning the MPAA was

Spoiler

the depiction of the aftermath of the Lisbon girls' suicides. No actual act of committing suicide is shown on screen. Granted, the impact is quite shocking, but if it weren't for attitudes towards suicide, this film would have wound up with a PG-13.

I don't think there was much blood in Silver Bullet, in fact I think most of the werewolf kills are not really shown. We see a guy pulled down through a floor, people pulled under the fog, and we hear about but do not see a boy killed. It seemed to me it was shot with a PG rating in mind but King got to leave all of the F-words in the script and so they bumped the film to an R. I would put the violence and gore on display in the film below or at the level of Jaws...which was rated PG but contained no F-words. I think the transformation scenes mostly focused on the face and the human face elongating into a wolf snout.

I think the rule with the F-word was you could use it about 3 times as long as it was not the sexual usage. So, you could have somebody say "Fuck it!" or "Fuck this!", or "Oh fuck!" but if they talked about "fucking" someone or "getting fucked" or how how she was a "great fuck" then it became "sexual content" which would bump you to the R.

Again this goes to the weirdness in this country about sexual content being more dangerous to children than violent content. I mean you can kill people in all kinds of ways and talk about killing people in horrible ways and still be PG but talk about sex or show a naked body...or heaven forbid show people actually having sex, OH MY...and you must have an R rating.

In the case of The Virgin Suicides I think that is the MPAA just playing Papa Bear and "protecting teens" from seeing a film about killing themselves in order not to trigger a wave of teen suicide across the nation.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

That's one reason why the MPAA is a completely irrelevant group (as Roger Ebert frequently pointed out). If even one use of the word "fuck" is allowed in, and it takes more than three for a film to be relegated to an "R" rating, just who are the idiots devising such policies? Why would 300 uses of that word in a film be more offensive for a child's ears than one? Why would one? As George Carlin was fond of reminding us, these are just words. It's the context that matters.

And the hypocrisy is unending... "adult language" and mild nudity will get a film an "R" long before graphic violence. What 6-year-old hasn't heard the word "fuck" spoken thousands of times in the home or elsewhere or seen a woman's nipples and nether parts? He'd have to have been born into a strict religious household, perhaps Amish, that had no internet access, never being exposed to any outside examples of such things.

Personally, I quickly tire of hearing the word "fuck" (I'm up to three now in this post....if I use the word again here, I guess I'll be censored or at least given an "R" rating) in movies because, to me, it smacks of laziness on the part of a screenwriter. Hell, the wittiest scripts ever written for movies were loaded with innuendo, but never resorted to using the actual offending words, and probably wouldn't have even if they'd been permitted in the 30's-50's.

Anyway, the double-standards are appalling.

I don't know if I am the best judge of what constitutes content that should not be viewed by children under 17. I don't have kids and my parents allowed me to watch whatever I felt like when I was a child. They felt movies were just movies and so were not "real" so they felt watching a fictional film was just food for the imagination...which they felt should be fed.

So, my brother and I watched everything under the sun regardless of rating. The only film I remember causing a problem was The Deer Hunter...oddly enough...which caused my brother to have many nights where he woke up screaming or would sleep walk looking to save the guys from having to play Russian roulette. For whatever reason, perhaps the intense way the game was portrayed in the film...and it was harrowing, I admit...of all the horror and science fiction we watched that was the film that got to him. I will say I would experience the same feeling when I saw the chainsaw sequence in De Palma's Scarface. This is the one scene from a film that turned up in my nightmares. I was able to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre without an issue...but the chainsaw scene in Scarface haunted me. I still have no interest in ever seeing it again.

In general I never look at the rating of the film I am watching as it is just not something I care about. When I watched Silver Bullet the other night I felt like I was watching a PG rated film. It just did not "feel" like something rated for adults only. So, to me I have no idea how the ratings board comes up with rules to follow or what those rules mean. Violence is fine, sex is taboo. Bad words are fine unless they describe sex or you say them too many times.

Basically, I think there are films made for adults...meaning the content would likely be more interesting to an adult than to a child or teen and there are films made to appeal mostly to teens or younger...which constitutes most of what you find in the cinema these days.

 

[RobertR]

I like this movie immensely because it has much to say about relationships, loss, and personal responsibility, more so than most films I can think of. It simply has what I consider to be a superfluous R-rated sequence that doesn't summarily forward the plot.

The tenor of your comments is such that I have to wonder if this is about showing the movie to kids at all. It sounds like you don't like that scene in the movie, period.

 

[Dick]

The tenor of your comments is such that I have to wonder if this is about showing the movie to kids at all. It sounds like you don't like that scene in the movie, period.

There are thousands of films I would show to younger kids before this one, even edited. However, I think it's among Cronenberg's best work, and I would like to be able to share it with audiences who are not into intense gore. So, you're right. But my audience often consists of teenagers also, and while they probably dig gore and nudity, I don't think it's my place to share it with them. I can't believe this thread has gone to 35 posts. Actually, everyone, I got the answer(s) I needed and now believe I can get the edit I am hoping for. Thanks to all.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Rensselaer must be just a bit north of Westchester County, no? I lived in Chappaqua for 15 years growing up.

Right up the Hudson. Directly across from Albany.

I can't believe this thread has gone to 35 posts. Actually, everyone, I got the answer(s) I needed and now believe I can get the edit I am hoping for. Thanks to all.

Dick: Do you want the thread closed? I'm not suggesting that it should be. Just asking. We can shut 'er down...or let the conversation continue. YOU make the call!

 

[Dick]

Right up the Hudson. Directly across from Albany.



Dick: Do you want the thread closed? I'm not suggesting that it should be. Just asking. We can shut 'er down...or let the conversation continue. YOU make the call!

Thanks for the choice. It can go on as far as I'm concerned, if someone out there can glean anything else from the topic. I was only saying it served its purpose for me.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think the thread went on for a while because the answer to Dick's question was simple--yes, he can edit and make copies for his own use--but then his question caused people to question the choice to edit the film for teens to watch it.

Personally, I don't see an issue with this and I think it is thoughtful and considerate that he would want to go to the trouble of doing his own edit of the film to show it to the kids. I do not think that this means Dick is into censorship or anything like that.

I do recall a guy asking my father when I was a kid "Why do you let them watch all these films? I don't know if that's appropriate." and my dad said "There are a lot of things in this world that you need to be concerned about protecting your children from...movies are not one of them."

I like the idea that Dick wants to watch movies with his kids and I like the idea that he wants to show them films that are good films. My father watched a lot of movies with my brother and I and I actually learned quite a bit from that. Particularly what was good storytelling and what was just plain nonsense.

I remember we had a copy of Friday the 13th in the house which my mother and father would often pull out when we had guests over that had never seen it. I learned to love Friday the 13th because of this. Night would fall, people would gather in the big living room, my father would very seriously take out Friday the 13th and make popcorn and pass out drinks. The film would start to run and all eyes were glued on the screen. I would hear the familiar sounds of the picture and I would look around the room watching the light flicker on people's faces.

Then I would look at my dad...who could barely contain his laughter. He would struggle through much of the film having to get up to leave the room with the excuse he was getting people more drinks or snacks but really he was running into the kitchen to hide his laughter. My dad saw the film as one big ridiculous gag and he would hide this as much as he could until the ending when the female lead is floating on the boat...then the big moment would come and people would leap out of their chairs, spill their drinks, popcorn would fly...and my father would burst out laughing uncontrollably.

I grew up thinking Friday the 13th was one of the greatest comedies ever made and still can't watch the film without laughing or hearing my dad's laughter in my head.

 

[Sam Posten]

Now, sir, be honest -- aren't there favorite movies in your life that, if could just edit out one unfortunate moment or sequence, would be even better? Not for the world at large, mind you...but for you and your family?

Emphatically: NO.