Is the Rolling Stones "Hot Rocks" DSD really a SACD?

Discussion in 'Music' started by John Pine, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. John Pine

    John Pine Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    John Pine
    CD Universe lists it as a "SACD". Just got mine in the mail today and my Denon DVD-2900 doesn't recognize it as a SACD(blue LED). How can I tell if my 2900 is accessing the DSD layer or the CD layer? The UPC code is 0 18771 96672 2.
     
    Osato likes this.
  2. JeremyErwin

    JeremyErwin Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The ones that come in Jewel boxes are CDs. Those that come in Digipaks are SACD/CD hybrids. Mind you, it's a stereo SACD. (My own personal player--not a Denon-- has a blue LED that comes on only for multichannel SACDs.)
     
    Osato likes this.
  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    If you have it set to SACD priority, it should pick up the SACD.

    That is the same UPC listed at tower for the Hybrid.
     
    Osato likes this.
  4. John Pine

    John Pine Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    John Pine
    Jeremy: Mine came in a dual jewel case. Not sure what a Digipak is.

    John: I cycled the SACD settings on my 2900 through CD/Stereo/Multi and back to stereo. I then checked the setting with the Setup button. But the SACD light still doesn't come on. What else could I check?
     
    Osato likes this.
  5. JeremyErwin

    JeremyErwin Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Digipak
    curse abkco...

    The DSD means nothing-- it was digitized off analogue tape using DSD-- and then decimated down to PCM. Early pressings had an SACD layer, but not the reissues.
     
    Osato likes this.
  6. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rolling Stone sacds are no longer made AFAIK. And ABKCO blew a huge marketing opportunity by not marking their packages with any kind of hi-res labeling - dumb.

    Also, sacd experts correct me if I'm wrong, but sacd hybrids always have a gold sheen on their playback side (this is supposedly an optical effect of the two different layers interacting & no gold is actually present). My RS500 sacd sampler and Audio Fidelity Zombies best-of sacd have this.

    FYI: I remember reading in a HFR review that during their remastering, certain portions of certain albums used PCM-based technology & I want to say it was for de-noising purposes but can't remember for sure.
     
    Osato likes this.
  7. Jeffrey R

    Jeffrey R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Sorry, but you got the redbook remaster, not the SACD. As stated previously, digipak = SACD and jewel case = redbook.

    ABKCO in their infinite wisdom discontinued the Stones SACD's, which were all in digipak's but not labeled as SACD's, and released the redbook remasters in jewel cases with the same exact UPC code as the SACD's. So retailers have been sending out redbooks when people order SACD's.

    The only way to be sure you're buying the SACD is to buy it locally, not online. But in any event, definitely get in touch with CD Universe as this was their mistake, and they should take care of this for you.
     
    Osato likes this.
  8. John Pine

    John Pine Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    John Pine
    Jeff even though it's bad news, thanks for the info! But, I feel somewhat better because I thought there was a problem with my 2900.

    Yeah', now that I'm aware of what to look for, the website does list a "Gatefold digipak" in the description.

    http://www.cduniverse.com/productinf...42&Style=MUSIC

    Man that SUX! [​IMG] So...I take it CD Universe won't likely have the SACD version. I'll call them tomorrow.
     
    Osato likes this.
  9. Jeffrey R

    Jeffrey R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nope, no problem with your 2900. That's my main player as well, and it has never missed an SACD or DVD-A for me with its trusty blue and red lights.

    Based on that description at CD Universe, it should be the SACD. But again, the problem is, ABKCO used the same UPC for both the SACD and the new DSD redbook remasters. So Joe Schmo in the warehouse just pulls out the UPC match and puts it in the mailer.

    Having said that, CD Universe may have the capability to ensure that you will receive the SACD. Can't hurt to ask.

    I already have most of the Stones SACD's, but I was in my local Tower Records today, and they had a bunch of the SACD's still available, both the individual albums as well as Hot Rocks, More Hot Rocks and The Singles Collection. So these are still out there.
     
    Osato likes this.
  10. John Pine

    John Pine Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    John Pine
    Good info! The guys at HTF come through again.

    Although is runs a little warm, yeah' the 2900 is a sweet player! Nothing else sounds as good in it's price range.

    There's only one Tower record in Atlanta and it's downtown.[​IMG]

    Wish me luck with CD Universe tomorrow!
     
    Osato likes this.
  11. John Pine

    John Pine Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    John Pine
    **UPDATE**

    Surprise, surprise...the SACD digipaks haves been out-of-stock since May according to the CD Universe rep. Sounds like they were trying to bait and switch an uninformed customer. But thanks to you guys, that's not me! I'm sending it back for a full refund plus return shipping.
     
    Osato likes this.
  12. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good luck finding the hybrid. They're out there. Scour the bins everywhere. Try places like Barnes-n-Noble or Borders, too.

    edit: just saw the "Beggar's Banquet" hybrid at the local Borders, tonight
     
    Osato likes this.
  13. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    13,228
    Likes Received:
    1,891
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Hey guys, Just found this thread via researching the hybrid SACDs of The Rolling Stones. I never got these at the time of release. I heard conflicting reviews that the remasters didn't sound authentic and that they lost dynamic range, but I've just got a new processor recently when my old one died. So I've been reinvigorated in listening again! I've always wanted to get some of The Rolling Stones hybrid SACDs, especially Hot Rocks. I'm a casual fan, I'm more a Beatles fan, but I like the 60's Stones a lot. So I want to see if the hybrid SACDs are even possible to still get. I'd like to listen to them myself. I saw a copy of Hot Rocks at Borders yesterday. I resisted buying it until I learned more about what is out there and what is not. My understanding is that ABKCO stopped issuing the hybrid SACD version and only sells the Rolling Stones albums they have the rights to as standard CDs now. Aside from searching eBay, is it pretty much impossible to find the hybrid SACDs? It's been 6 years since last post here! There are a few large used record stores near me, I could check those out. I'd rather buy new, but we'll see. Thanks!
     
    Osato likes this.
  14. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Central FL
    Real Name:
    Phil
    While not cheap (but probably cheaper than many used ABKCO sold) on E-Bay, there are Japanese imports (w/o the CD layer) - http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/search3.html?q=the+rolling+stones+shm+sacd&media=&r=any&step=20&order=score I have not bought any of the Stones yet but have a few of them. Dire Straits "Making Movies" is on the way. They are generally excellent but of course at the price it's not most are going to buy a ton of. I have several of the ABKCO Stones SACDs and like them. Have not seem them in stores for a bit. Used to be you would sometimes see them mixed in with CDs at Best Buy or other stores.
     
    Osato likes this.
  15. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    13,228
    Likes Received:
    1,891
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Thanks for the link Phil. I suppose one benefit of a disc without the CD layer is the disc may be more robust and not fail in the future. I was hoping to still find sone of the hybrid discs but this is a great option. Thanks again and I'll keep searching.:)
     
    Osato likes this.
  16. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Central FL
    Real Name:
    Phil
    Just be careful as the regular CDs as after the SACDs were out-of-print they continued to press CDs from the DSD mastering process. See here as an an example - http://www.sa-cd.net/showthread/52850/52898 All the Abcko releases by the Stones and other artists (e.g Sam Cooke) may have the 'DSD Mastered' label on the CD. Here is an example [​IMG]
     
    Osato likes this.
  17. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Central FL
    Real Name:
    Phil
    btw - here is a thread with opinions on the different versions (I didn't re-buy any of them on the SHM SACDs) - http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rolling-stones-2002-sacd-hybrids-vs-recent-shm-sacd.294866/

    I usually look here for info on the quality of things - http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=the+rolling+stones&album=aftermath

    Note that the Stones stuff is available for download at HDTracks. Note that one can also buy them at the HDTracks website in 24/88.2 (from the SACD). At that sampling rate, they should be able to fit on a DVD if you use one of those to play discs and have the software to author them to a format your player can read (e.g. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/burning-wav-files-to-dvd-r-will-they-play-back-on-dvd-player.320261/).

    Unless someone comes over, I don't play discs any longer (file playback). It is just easier for me.
     
    Osato likes this.
  18. Osato

    Osato Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    748
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    I got into the stones around the time these releases were coming out from abko. I ended up with just a couple of sacd ones and the others were dsd.
    I am able to play the sacd ones using my oppo DVD player. Right now it's not hooked up however.
    Had I known what I do know now I would've Karen a greater effort to pick up as many of the albums on the sacd format.

    It is unfortunate that sacd wasn't received as well. The dsd labeling added to the confusion as well.
    Am I correct that sacd requires at least a 5.1 setup for playback?
    I have that but again I don't have the player hooked up.
    I actually listened to some of the abko cd releases this weekend and this thread came up on a search.
     
  19. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 1999
    Messages:
    11,238
    Likes Received:
    787
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Florida
    Real Name:
    Aaron Silverman
    Only if you want to listen to the 5.1 mix. Not all SACDs are multichannel. (And not all multichannel SACDs are 5.1 -- I actually have some reissues of old RCA Living Stereo albums that are 3.0.)
     
    Osato likes this.
  20. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    13,228
    Likes Received:
    1,891
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Cool to see the reply Phil, after....5 years. :laugh:

    In the interrum, I actually was able to track down from Europe the two CD set pressed on the late 1980's of the first issues of Hot Rocks on CD. That was one of my goals. They are in great shape and reasonably priced via discogs. They had the serial numbers I was looking for based on the set my friend has.

    Since achieving this goal, the newer SACD releases have not been as important to me to collect. However your post reminded me that I was looking for them.
     
    Osato likes this.

Share This Page