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Is the format war about to resurface? Does Toshiba have the Blu-ray killer? (1 Viewer)

Scooter

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Before the end of the format war...when asked, I would lead people to HD-DVD. Afterwards, I talked to them about BD.

Now..I would tell'em to wait...and see just what Tosh may have up thier sleeve.

Think about it...who would have thought you could get an amazing image on a 5" disc...be it DVD...HD-DVD...or BD!

This is possible!
 

Cees Alons

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There may be another highly unwanted side effect too.

If most people think it's "almost as good as BD" then certain cheaper studios may decide to run the DVD version of a movie through this chip, marginally approve the result a bit more, add a DD+ track .... and presto: the BD/1080p version day-and-date with the DVD release!


Cees
 

Edwin-S

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I wish Toshiba would go bankrupt and end the farce that upconverted DVD can be made to look the same or almost the same as BD or even the now deceased HD DVD system. Unfortunately, my wish has no possibility of coming true, but how happy I would be to see the newspaper headline....TOSHIBA FILES FOR BANKRUPTCY.
 

CraigF

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^ Oh please. Sony is far more likely to go bankrupt first, they're barely hanging in there now. And they owe a lot of people over the next relatively short time period. Who knows, maybe Tosh is looking for a buyout? Primping their outlook...

I don't think there are too many players in this hi def game who can escape without serious criticism. It's a wonder they have any working product at all.

I wouldn't go inventing too many what-if scenarios, based on past delivery performance. This could all be marketing BS (as if they could understand what the techies are saying, presuming they ever talked to them).
 

Edwin-S

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As far as I am concerned their wonderbread Super DVD system is all marketing BS, and that is what is rankling me. Toshiba is probably fully aware that this "faux HD" system has no chance in hell of actually equaling the quality of a properly mastered film on BD or HD DVD: yet, they insist on marketing this new "faux HD" system in order to re-ignite a useless and ultimately damaging, to real HD media, format war.
 

CraigF

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What these days isn't marketing BS? The best marketer wins.

It is a shame that Toshiba had to even reference BD in this. And that phrases like "Blu-ray killer" even get used. That's strictly to stir the still-muddied waters. Nothing like a yellow headline to get forum/blog hits. A much-better upscaler is all I want. Or not...I won't lose anything, just want to gain more from the back catalog if possible. I doubt this "device" will happen.

I made the comment about "criticism" because it seemed you picked out Tosh to vent anger on. Maybe that's just in this particular thread... As I have said already, they are not one of my preferred brands (to be polite), but if they have tech that I could use presented in a format I can use...
 

Michael Elliott

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Since we're all just guessing at this point in time. If Toshiba knows there's no actual way for this new machine to make SD discs looks better than HD then I doubt they're going to try and full those people who will or do know the difference. This new machine might be aimed at folks who simply don't know the difference or don't want to have to rebuy their entire collection again. If this new machine is an option to avoid rebuying their collection then I'd guess these are the people who Toshiba are going to aim at.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I still believe the majority of DVD owners either don't care or simply don't know. I'd be willing to bet just about anything I have that the majority of them can't even take advantage of a 16x9 transfer or a DD 5.1 track. Most of the people I know are watching their DVDs on a 4x3 screen and using the TV speakers only. If these people can't even take full advantage of SD then I doubt they are going to make any type of jump to a new format.

I'm not sure if it's just around here but I go to several stores weekly. Best Buy, CC, Wal-Mart, Target and a few others. I remember a couple years ago that countless people were in the DVD sections but today it seems the numbers are down each time I go into one of these stores. It seems the only thing bringing people to movies is the dump bin at Wal-Mart. I'm going to guess that a lot of your average shoppers go to WM weekly and pick out of this $5 bin. I'm sure even your average J6P (a dumb word in my opinion since they are the majority) has a great collection of movies due to WM $5 bin or those $5 and $6 sales offered by CC or BB.

I don't think HDs biggest challenge is battling us folks here who are constantly watching for the latest releases but instead trying to convince those who have built a collection on $5 movies that they should turn their back on that and start buying a new format and new movies for over $25.

Now, if Toshiba tells these people that they can save a few hundred bucks and get the "same quality of Blu-Ray", I'm sure the majority would go for this idea.

If this machine is real and gets out to the mainstream, BR will then have to decide to drop their prices and try to win the battle with this new machine. However, I seriously doubt a majority would win between keeping your collection and starting one over again.
 

John Dirk

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Actually, I think most of them would say "what's Blu Ray?"

No matter how well the salesman explains both Blu Ray and Toshiba's product, I think the average consumer will tune him/her out once they hear that they will have to buy another DVD player, when there's nothing wrong with the one they already have.

John
 

FrancisP

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I don't see this as a blu-ray killer or another war. If true, this will be another choice for consumers. I think when all is said and done, there will be a number of different choices for consumers who want hd quality. Competition never hurt anything. Also I don't think they have to make it to 1080p. If they can push it to 720p quality that may be good enough. Considering most people probably have $2000 or less flat screens, there may not be a huge noticeable difference between 720p quality and 1080p quality.

As to consumer confusion, Sony does it as well. Look at the packaging of Sony's upconverting dvd players. They certainly do intimate that you will get hd quality pictures.
 

Alfonso_M

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well, this is exactly what I'd be telling every one that asks me about Blu Ray from now on.

This news has certainly completly eliminated any thoughts of buying into Blu ray for me now or in the near future.

Cetainly don't need another future pile of useless expensive Blu ray dvds to go with my obsolete HD-DVD collection, besides my equipment rack is maxed out already.

Super Hi-REZ DVDs/near Hi_DEF DVDs will be more than enough for me, and I don't care about Lossless even though I'm setup with SACD. So I'll wait.
 

troy evans

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Why is this whole thing starting to sound like all Tosh is doing is re-releasing HD DVD players re-tooled to just upconvert sd dvd? How does this new upconversion differ from the already fantastic ability of the higher end HD DVD players? I always thought the Tosh HD DVD players did an awesome job upconverting the sd dvds that were mastered or remastered in hi-def, what's different here? More than likely, nothing. We would really have to be foolish to buy into this. I love HD DVD. It was the first of the two formats I bought into. When they threw in the towel after the Warner announcement I was disapointed, to say the least. I have un-easy feelings towards anything they have to offer in the way of new tech at this point and that won't change for awhile. This is desperate from them IMO. I can't support it. I will keep throwing my weight exclusively behind Blu-ray. Blu-ray is the hi-def format, like it or not. I can't accept a "maybe it will be as good as hi-def" player when we already have one out there that definately is.
 

Jari K

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It´s not going to be "same quality of Blu-Ray". If they´re saying that, they´re lying. And what is "majority"? People just abandon the idea of getting that Blu-ray-player and the whole A/V community starts buying one magical player from Toshiba? I doubt it.

Give it a rest Toshiba. Like Carlito says: "You lost MF". ;)

edit: Btw. Why Toshiba didn´t want to make Blu-ray-players? Business decision (they wanted out from the HD-game etc) or more "personal" (they didn´t want to be part of Blu-ray, which won)?

I mean let´s think about; Toshiba Blu-ray player with "best upscaling" in the business (and decent price range). That "slogan" would sell some players for sure. Oh well...
 

Michael Elliott

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The majority of the shoppers at WW don't have the money to buy something now just to wait for the future. They can't afford to pay $17 for a SD and then buy the HD versions for $25 when it is released six months or a year later.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't recall the mainstream getting into DVD just to show off their theater system. They jumped in for extras, not having to rewind a tape, smaller product and the fact that studios turned their backs on VHS. I personally don't think the studios are going to kill off SD. Unless they do I don't see the format going anywhere because most people sit down and watch a movie. They don't sit down to show something off or to inspect each and every frame for EE or the wrong sky color.

Since getting that PS3 a few weeks ago I've been renting BR discs and I have my own feelings on them but that's for another thread. I know what to look for in a transfer so I'm "in the know" like the majority of people here. My girlfriend, her two kids and her mother on the other hand are your average customers. Not a single one of them could look and see a difference to where they'd jump.

I'm in Louisville and the Cincinnati area when I'm at the girlfriends house but I just don't hear too many people talking about it. The biggest video store in Louisville rents both HD and BR but I've been told there are under 7 people renting them. The Movie Gallery up by my girlfriend's house just started renting them but the Blockbuster hasn't. No one take this as political but the working scene in Louisville is piss poor right now. Sometime from tomorrow to the end of the year I'm going to be out of a job when GE closes doors. There are 4000 other people there that are going to be out of a job. Ford is closing and cutting more and more in Louisville, which has already hurt 3000 people and 2000 more could be coming in the next few months.

The point of saying that is none of them care if BR is #1 or is SD is old fashioned. A lot of people are in that shape so they haven't followed any of the wars between HD and BR and they won't follow whatever war is next. Outside of video folks, no one cares and they never will. You mentioned exploitation titles, which I love as well. Jess Franco is my favorite but I know that his titles only sell a few thousand copies. Most people don't care for him and never will. It would be foolish for me to hope for a day when VAMPYROS LESBOS sells more copies than SHREK. I think us home theater fans are being somewhat foolish as well when we hope that something kills off SD or even puts a major dent in it.

Again, I could be wrong or just too negative. :)
 

Jari K

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Like I said earlier, I want BD to be that "nr.1" choice for people (with big selection of movies and all new releases in BD also), but when it comes to DVD, I don´t really wish that the format "dies" just like that (which obviously doesn´t happen). Things can evolve in a natural way. When SD DVD "dies" at some point (could be 5-10 years from now, if ever?), people are already moved to BD.

IMO, now bigger studios should treat both formats (DVD and BD) as "equal" and release everything in both formats. That would at least give BD a fair chance. The "war" already did some major damage, there´s no need to have the "2nd round" with DVD and BD. Both of these formats can now live together and time will tell what´ll eventually happen.
 

Hartwig Hanser

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I guess this is just another classic example of vaperware used to hinder the competition. No Upconverter can do much about the main problem of most DVDs out there: nasty artefacts like Edge enhancement, mosquito noise etc.
 

Hanson

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If in fact this unit is a "Blu-Ray Killer", it isn't going to need more than a pilllow to do the trick:

Over half of US HD TV owners blurry on Blu-ray | Register Hardware

I agree with the sentiment that if BR isn't taking off, there's nothing to suggest an upscaling DVD player is going to fare any better.

I would still get one (provided it does close to what's advertised).

My appreciation for today's movies is pretty low, so for me, most of the movies I want to own are catalog titles. And I don't want to buy them again. What's the point of me getting BR if it's only for a handful of titles?

I was glad to replace my meager VHS collection (full of used tapes) with DVD's. My DVD collection, in contrast, is huge. And the used DVD's I have aren't any less quality than the new ones.

I do remember there were a lot of LD owners back in the day who didn't want to go DVD because they didn't want to rebuy their collections. If I had to flip my DVD's, I would go to BR. But I don't.
 

Scott-S

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Well according to the stats on the Digital Bits front page, Blu-Ray was 10% of the disc sales for the latest week (6/8/08). Thats pretty darn good for this stage in the game.

So I think Blu is doing just fine.

This sentiment that Blu-ray is not taking off is just not valid. What do people expect? Every movie ever made available right now for $5 each?
 

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