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Is the b&w era of TV on DVD slowly coming to an end?

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Gary OS, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. Lecagr

    Lecagr Second Unit

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    No unfortunately The Cara Williams Show hasn't been announced but I wish it would be because I'd like to have this series on DVD. I imagine it's probably unlikely to get released but I retain some hope that it might happen.
     
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  2. Lecagr

    Lecagr Second Unit

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    Thanks Tom, I passed on season 3 because of the edited episodes, looks like I'll do the same with season 4. I have seasons 1 & 2 and that will likely be it for me.

    Aside from two season 1 episodes which have minor edits, the seasons 1 and 2 DVD's have the uncut episodes. Starting with season 3, edited episodes have become a problem. I wonder why that is, maybe CBS can't locate the original uncut versions of some episodes so they went with the edited/syndicated versions?
     
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  3. smithbrad

    smithbrad Screenwriter

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    Either that or they were in much worse shape and they chose the syndicated versions instead for the better video quality.

    I often wondered if VEI was caught in that dilemma when they licensed from CBS. Hotel was released with poor uncut prints and they received negative feedback on the print quality. Barnaby Jones was delayed and then released with mostly syndicated prints of slightly better quality and received negative feedback for cut episodes. No win scenario.
     
  4. David Weicker

    David Weicker Producer

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    Can you please clarify this statement?

    I understand the ‘not remastered’ part, but from the way it’s worded, I can’t tell if it has the original music or not
     
  5. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    It has the original music, unlike the earlier remastered sets from many years back.
     
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  6. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    Yep, it's a situation where one thing is given up to have another. Full running times that don't look so hot, or syndicated, shortened one's that look a bit better.
     
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  7. Lecagr

    Lecagr Second Unit

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    As long as the shows are watchable, I'd much rather have uncut shows with somewhat lesser video quality as opposed to edited shows with somewhat better video quality. I dislike edited shows and I usually avoid DVD sets that have problems with edited episodes. I made an exception for Gomer Pyle USMC, several of those episodes have music edits but it's one of my favorite 1960's sitcoms so I bought the DVD's anyway.
     
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  8. smithbrad

    smithbrad Screenwriter

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    With me, it depends on the editing of the show and how much of a difference there is in video quality. Sure, I would prefer to see it in its full glory with no edits and in remastered (potentially better than day of broadcast) condition. But when that is unavailable, I have to consider how well the edits are done and how much of a difference there is in video quality.

    For example, if I grew up enjoying a show in syndication with edits there is no reason I can't still enjoy it now the same way, or if it is a new show to me and the edits well-done. In those cases, I might take the video over the edits, if video differences significant enough. However, I remember episodes of "Branded" where it was obvious the cuts interrupted the story, or the original DVD release of LHOTP where the abruptness at commercial breaks were obvious and distracting.

    I take each show/release on a case by case basis when imperfections are included.
     
  9. Lecagr

    Lecagr Second Unit

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    For these season 3 and 4 My Three Sons episodes that ended up with the edited/syndicated versions on the DVD's, if the uncut versions do indeed exist and are still in usable condition, then shame on CBS for going with the edited versions. There's no excuse for using the edited versions unless the uncut ones are lost or indeed absolutely unusable, and I'm skeptical if that would actually be the case. Just seems strange to me that seasons 1 and 2 didn't really have a problem with edited episodes, but suddenly starting with season 3 it's now a problem.

    Music rights issues are another ridiculous reason why scenes are sometimes cut on DVD releases, but that's a topic for a different discussion.
     
  10. Professor Echo

    Professor Echo Screenwriter

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    There is no way I would ever prefer edited episodes unless the quality of the originals was truly abysmal. I have zero nostalgia for watching any edited series in syndication from my youth. Sorry, but there is no such thing as edits that are “well done.” I understand everyone is different, but for me personally there is no leeway on this issue and, quite frankly, I can’t understand in the slightest anyone preferring edited shows or movies unless, as I said, the differences in PQ were THAT drastic. I’ll settle for cut shows when there is no other choice, but if labels have a choice I would rather they settle for lesser technical quality over destroying what the filmmakers intended. I grew up in an era when original creators were not respected at all and I have no desire to ever return to those days.
     
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  11. David Weicker

    David Weicker Producer

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    I don’t think anyone is preferring anything.

    The choice isn’t between edited and uncut. The choice is between edited and nothing.

    If you are willing to not watch Steve, Mike/Robbie/Chip, and Bub, then hold out for something that ain’t gonna show up.
     
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  12. smithbrad

    smithbrad Screenwriter

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    I can totally understand your stance, and realize my opinion in this particular area would put me in the minority. In principle, I agree, and we all have cases where principles are paramount. However, for me, this just isn't one of those cases. I have no control over what the studios release, only what I chose to buy. If I can watch a show I've never seen before (or only in the form I originally saw it), enjoy it, and not notice in the slightest that anything might be missing, then the edits were "well done" (to me). Not saying anyone else has to share my view, but it is my perspective. There are people who won't buy a single season of a show until all seasons have been released. I don't understand that logic, but if that is their approach, I will respect it.
     
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    ClassicTVMan1981X

    ClassicTVMan1981X Screenwriter

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    I also think, besides the numerous edits made for syndication and other reasons which affect these releases, that shows like this may not sell well on DVD unless the original commercial breaks were included as well, obviously only leaving out the spots for station IDs and the like.

    What I mean is: most of us would like to see these series exactly as presented on the night of first broadcast, meaning with the original songs (if any) included and the original commercials as well.

    ~Ben
     
  14. Professor Echo

    Professor Echo Screenwriter

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    Uh, this is the direct quote from another member above that I was responding to:

    For example, if I grew up enjoying a show in syndication with edits there is no reason I can't still enjoy it now the same way, or if it is a new show to me and the edits well-done. In those cases, I might take the video over the edits, if video differences significant enough.

    In addition, I wrote this in the post right above yours:

    I’ll settle for cut shows when there is no other choice, but if labels have a choice I would rather they settle for lesser technical quality over destroying what the filmmakers intended.

    Where did I say it’s about preferring nothing at all?
     
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  15. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    I think all Glen is doing is expressing his preferences on uncut w/lesser quality vs cut w/better quality. Nothing wrong with him expressing that since the preceding comments have brought the issue up. And to be honest, I agree with him. I'd take uncut episodes with a bit less visual quality over cut episodes that are a tad better. Now, as Glen said, if the visuals are drastically different, I'd take the cut episodes. But only if that's the only way they are coming.

    As a for instance, I remember when Shout put out that first season of Father Knows Best with both uncut and syndicated episodes mixed together. I was incredibly disappointed when one of the cut episodes was "The Christmas Story". The syndicated cut there left out a couple of critical scenes for me, and the cuts were actually very jarring and noticeable. But I was even more upset when I found out that Shout could have gotten the unedited episode with just a little bit of diligence. That really bugged me.

    Gary "if there's no choice, we all will take what we can get if we like the show enough - but in this case its the parent company putting this out, and it does seem weird that they can't at least give us uncut episodes all the way through" O.
     
  16. smithbrad

    smithbrad Screenwriter

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    Seasons 1 and 2 went back to the original film elements, so there would not be any edits. Seasons 3 and 4 relied on previously transferred video elements. In this case, they typically do one with no cuts and another with edits. As we saw with the VEI releases, there can unfortunately be more damage some times to the uncut video elements then the cut (not sure why).

    As for edits vs. high video quality, in a forum like this edits are a bigger no-no and quickly identified. However, to the average consumer looking at episode length is likely less obvious then lower video quality. In a case like this, CBS has to make a choice based on which will garner the most complaints, which may explain their reasoning. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just presenting an opinion.
     
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  17. Professor Echo

    Professor Echo Screenwriter

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    It can be a tough choice, no doubt, depending on the title. For instance, I NEVER would have bought the original release of THE FUGITIVE with the entire music score replacement, no matter how stellar the picture quality. If that had been the only release, I would have settled for nothing. For something like BARNABY JONES, it’s not as tough a decision to make and I can begrudgingly settle for the edits as I don’t have the same personal investment in it as I do THE FUGITIVE.

    So in that sense I can find some agreement in your perspective. Like you said in your earlier post, it has to be on a case by case basis, but in specifically addressing the question at hand of preferring better technical quality over an unedited copy, I would always choose the latter unless it was an unwatchable monstrosity.
     
  18. smithbrad

    smithbrad Screenwriter

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    Unfortunately, we get what we get. There is little way to know if the uncut episodes were somehow lost/misplaced, or just of inferior video or audio quality. So while we may all have different perspectives on how bad the un-cut episodes would have to be to take syndicated episodes in their place, we likely will never see what CBS had to work with and whether we would have made the same call, or just chosen to not release at all.
     
  19. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    Let me say that I'm very happy with what CBS has done with their TV product on DVD over the years. They've been very good, albeit a bit gun-shy with music rights. They've delivered a lot of pristine quality shows to us, and at the same time they've offered some releases that have had chopped episodes and ugly music substitutions. Depending on our favorites, some of us are happier with them than others.

    Having said all that, at this high price-point I would think CBS could at least give us uncut episodes since they aren't going to the trouble of remastering these. Not being on the inside I obviously have no idea of what's up with these recent MTS releases. But I also can't just give CBS the benefit of the doubt based on past releases. So I admit I'm bummed about the cuts and the quality of these MODs. But I like the show so I have to suck it up.

    Gary "the sticker shock is my biggest complaint on these non-remastered, cut episode releases" O.
     
  20. Lecagr

    Lecagr Second Unit

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    Thanks Brad, seasons 1 and 2 are on silver DVD's and were released at general retail, aside from minor music edits in two season 1 episodes, the shows are uncut. Seasons 3 and 4 are on purple DVD-R's and a MOD release. Maybe that's the difference and maybe why the original film elements weren't used for those seasons. For DVD-R/MOD releases, maybe CBS chooses to use previously transferred video elements instead of original film elements because it's less costly. Whatever the reason, it's a shame some edited/syndicated versions of episodes ended up on the season 3 and 4 DVD's.
     
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