Is "South Pacific" a Good Transfer? (1 Viewer)

[AdrianTurner]

I'm sorry, that photo-link (which I have used on other sites) doesn't seem to work and I can't delete the post.

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

 

[AnthonyClarke]

I think 'South Pacific' is an outstanding transfer to Blu ray -- fully as good as the demonstration-class Region B transfer of 'Zulu'. Mind you, the DVD of 'South Pacific' was demonstration-quality as well -- you really need a hi-def big-screen projector to benefit from the BR improvement.

The only criticism I would have is that the feature letting you access the songs has been given a bit of a brutal edit -- I had done my own highlights version from the DVD and it's far preferable to retain a line or two of dialogue before the singer launches into the number.

I only hope that 'Carousel' and 'Oklahoma!', my other two favourite R & H musicals, are given this class of transfer treatment!

Speaking of 'Oklahoma!', I hope 20th Century Fox has been able to locate a good print of the Todd-AO version to give it a deluxe Blu ray transfer. They blamed the appalling quality of the last transfer to DVD on the rapid deterioration of the original source material between the first and second DVD transfers, which to me sounds just incredible -- as if, after doing the first transfer, they just shoved the original elements in someone's car-boot! How could the source material have been allowed to deteriorate so quickly between DVD editions? The company must be run by people incredibly careless about preserving cinematic heritage.

Anthony in Australia

 

[GMpasqua]

I saw a TODD-AO print of "Oklahoma!" in the late 90's and it looked great (the first DVD used the same source)

The second DVD was messed up in the processing (Fox later admitted this) The Todd-AO print source is most likely fine and will be used for the Blu-ray. I do not believe it needs another restoration (but I could be wrong)

 

[MatthewA]

I saw Oklahoma! twice in 70mm in the 2000s, and I don't think they were the same prints. I think they were both from the early 1980s reissue; one had a Samuel Goldwyn Company logo and the other didn't. Both leaned a bit to the yellow side, except for one shot of Many a New Day.


I don't think what happened on the 50th Anniversary DVD will happen on the eventual Blu-Ray. I assume both the Todd-AO and Cinemascope versions will be there, and I just hope both are in HD. The majority of deterioration to the film elements probably happened before the first DVD.


I assumed that all the R&H DVDs released in the late 1990s (except the Five-Star Collection version of The Sound of Music), were from the most recent laserdisc masters. They were all non-anamorphic; for that reason I never bothered to buy any of them but State Fair, which was Academy Ratio to begin with.

 

[GMpasqua]

I saw it at the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood (somewhere between 1999 and 2001).

Shirley Jones was there and her husband Marty Engels handed out sandwiches during intermission (they were really good too)


I remember the print had the same marks as the DVD and looked pretty much identical (except of course the TODD-AO image was sharper and bigger) Of course this was the same transfer used for the laserdisc


Saw the film in cinemascope a few years ago (it didn't look as good) Shirley Jones was there again. My friends knew her and when we spoke with her afterward I mentioned she didn't bring any sandwiches this time. She laughed and said "Oh that's right, last time we brought sandwiches" She also turns up at screenings of "The Music Man" She's always fun and still looks great

 

[MatthewA]

That's interesting, because IIRC the 1994 laserdisc claimed to be transferred from the original negative (they also claimed that about the LDs of The Sound of Music and South Pacific released around the same time). I also recall that the ability to telecine 65mm had only become possible in the last few years before then. Fox used to be open about the sources they used on a lot of their laserdiscs on the boxes; today only Criterion says what material they use. What is the earliest generation on which the lab puts cue marks?

 

[Johnny Angell]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

Doris Day and Elizabeth Talyor were both in the running for Nellie. I guess many feel Gaynor was a "B" actress compared to them.

Fernado Lamas was offered the role of Emile but the producers of his Broadway show would not release him from his contract so he was unavailable when filming started (He would have used his own voice though)


Taylor would have been wonderful except she would have been dubbed (then the entire cast would have been dubbed)

Gaynor is the only one who does her own singing

So Kerr was dubbed too. I only saw Tozzi getting a mention in the screen credits, did I miss Kerr's. Bloody Mary wasn't dubbed, was she? I thought she did the role on Broadway.

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angell



So Kerr was dubbed too. I only saw Tozzi getting a mention in the screen credits, did I miss Kerr's. Bloody Mary wasn't dubbed, was she? I thought she did the role on Broadway.

The only cast member not to be dubbed was Mitzi Gaynor.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angell



So Kerr was dubbed too. I only saw Tozzi getting a mention in the screen credits, did I miss Kerr's. Bloody Mary wasn't dubbed, was she? I thought she did the role on Broadway.

Rogers and Hammerstein thought that Ms Hall's voice had deteriorated to the point that she needed to be dubbed. However her own voice can be heard in THE FLOWER DRUM SONG.

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by Cinescott




The only cast member not to be dubbed was Mitzi Gaynor.

Ray Walston also did his own singing, what little he did to begin with.

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by MatthewA




Ray Walston also did his own singing, what little he did to begin with.

I didn't know that qualified as singing

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by Cinescott /forum/thread/311623/is-south-pacific-a-good-transfer/30#post_3817290

 

[Johnny Angell]

Originally Posted by ahollis





Rogers and Hammerstein thought that Ms Hall's voice had deteriorated to the point that she needed to be dubbed. However her own voice can be heard in THE FLOWER DRUM SONG.

Any reason why only Tozzi received credit for his singing?

 

[GMpasqua]

Originally Posted by MatthewA




Ray Walston also did his own singing, what little he did to begin with.

Actually, Ray Walston was also dubbed - the few lines he had, have no idea why. The others sailors were all dubbed as were Emille's children

 

[Matt Hough]

Muriel Smith, who originated the role of Bloody Mary in the London version of South Pacific, was the voice double for Juanita Hall.


Generally, voice doubles don't get screen credit, but Tozzi had an international reputation, so he probably had it written into his contract that he'd get screen credit. There have been other instances where dubbers got credit, but it's the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Cinescott]

I would surmise that producers generally would not want to give voice doubles credit since they would like nothing better than to maintain the illusion that it is indeed the actors singing and being recorded on the spot.

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by Cinescott

I would surmise that producers generally would not want to give voice doubles credit since they would like nothing better than to maintain the illusion that it is indeed the actors singing and being recorded on the spot.

No question about it. That's why around the mid-1950s, soundtrack albums for musicals stopped crediting the names of the singers and instead listed the names of the characters who were doing the singing. MGM certainly credited the voice doubles for Cyd Charisse (Carol Richards) and Vera-Ellen (Anita Ellis) on soundtrack albums for Brigadoon and Three Little Words, for example, but by the time of The King and I, the curtain was lowered over the identities of the vocalists.

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by MattH.





No question about it. That's why around the mid-1950s, soundtrack albums for musicals stopped crediting the names of the singers and instead listed the names of the characters who were doing the singing. MGM certainly credited the voice doubles for Cyd Charisse (Carol Richards) and Vera-Ellen (Anita Ellis) on soundtrack albums for Brigadoon and Three Little Words, for example, but by the time of The King and I, the curtain was lowered over the identities of the vocalists.

I have always wondered how much the general public knew about vocal dubbing prior to My Fair Lady. I also wonder if there's a comprehensive list of who dubbed whom available anywhere.


Today, films must credit all pieces of music individually including writer and performers. They could never get away with it today. Auto-tune, on the other hand, seems to rate a "whatever" from a lot of people because it's on almost every top 40 recording today.

 

[GMpasqua]

MGM had Ava Gardner re-record her vocals for the Album so they could useher name on the album credits. Otherwise thr studios don't want you to know an actor isn't really singing (Almost every film has a actor who is dubbed in song)